lol
The samplepack competition thing from the production forum is back on if anyone give a flying..
http://www.getdarker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=636
Dubstep
lol
The samplepack competition thing from the production forum is back on if anyone give a flying..
http://www.getdarker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=636
mos dan
fact music
not to be childish and focus on beef, but which producer and what were they saying that was so insulting? just mildly intrigued.
calling it theft seems a bit highly-strung droid, though i see where you're coming from i guess. as i said on dot-alt, for me this is a superb move, politically speaking.
in any case hold tight boomy and seckle and dubway etc for all their hard work - i don't know how ppl muster the energy to mod message boards, it genuinely impresses/baffles me
yeh i wouldn't go so far as theft, mainly because i don't really like to conceptualise about things like this in terms of property rights, but i think the fundamental point is an interesting one about the dynamics of contribution etc
Got to say I think closing the forum down is/was a stroke of genius. Never saw it coming.
Watching the forum steadily deteriorate (I originally joined a few weeks after it started) , particularly over the past eighteen months, into an overall dirge of uninspiring posts devoid of anything even remotely resembling intelligent discussion was dispiriting to say the least (and especially for those of us not privy to The Bash).
Hopefully, some of the weasels will wander off. And I agree with Grievous' post. Does the whole thing smack a little elitism? Yeah, probably. But the 'music/scene/whatever you want to call it' is worth fighting for.
I think it could finally trigger a fascinating split and, indeed, its becoming increasingly difficult, and arguably increasingly absurd, to try and concile the twin poles of macho-mid range wobble and the more spacious, experimental 'deep' stuff. Personally, I've long taken the concept of unity as an almost unquestionable essential facet of the scene but its not the be-all and end-all by any means.
On a more prosaic, less idealistic, level, it was a pretty indispensable resource for event listings and mixes/radio archives, as others have mentioned.
My hunch is that it'll be back before 14th November and thats its not the end. Even if it is the end, then other things will start up, almost undoubtedly, on a far-smaller scale. But I'm not sure a community of 20,000+ was really either desireable or manageable. And such a huge rise in membership undoubtedly helped precipitate the decline in interesting discussion. Its time to take a step back and see where all the pieces land.
Watching the forum steadily deteriorate (I originally joined a few weeks after it started) , particularly over the past eighteen months, into an overall dirge of uninspiring posts devoid of anything even remotely resembling intelligent discussion was dispiriting to say the least (and especially for those of us not privy to The Bash).
Hopefully, some of the weasels will wander off. And I agree with Grievous' post. Does the whole thing smack a little elitism? Yeah, probably. But the 'music/scene/whatever you want to call it' is worth fighting for.
I think it could finally trigger a fascinating split and, indeed, its becoming increasingly difficult, and arguably increasingly absurd, to try and concile the twin poles of macho-mid range wobble and the more spacious, experimental 'deep' stuff. Personally, I've long taken the concept of unity as an almost unquestionable essential facet of the scene but its not the be-all and end-all by any means.
On a more prosaic, less idealistic, level, it was a pretty indispensable resource for event listings and mixes/radio archives, as others have mentioned.
My hunch is that it'll be back before 14th November and thats its not the end. Even if it is the end, then other things will start up, almost undoubtedly, on a far-smaller scale. But I'm not sure a community of 20,000+ was really either desireable or manageable. And such a huge rise in membership undoubtedly helped precipitate the decline in interesting discussion. Its time to take a step back and see where all the pieces land.
not to be childish and focus on beef, but which producer and what were they saying that was so insulting? just mildly intrigued.
calling it theft seems a bit highly-strung droid, though i see where you're coming from i guess. as i said on dot-alt, for me this is a superb move, politically speaking.
in any case hold tight boomy and seckle and dubway etc for all their hard work - i don't know how ppl muster the energy to mod message boards, it genuinely impresses/baffles me
not that i'm the sort of person who followed everything going on a dsf
but i think that's about kulture taking the piss out of last year's awards and not being able to understand why 'lean fwd' won...
i've had enough of both
it got a bit more than that though i seem to remember, some quite insulting words and a general allegation of injustice and conspiracy?
D
droid
Guest
Well it's the politics of forums innit? A forum is literally nothing without the contribution of it's members. Anyone can fork out a few quid for hosting and set one up but it's the members who provide all the content, and the 'worth' of any forum is based on their input and the networks that are created around and within the community.
This is about property rights. People who have contributed to that forum (or any forum), have a stake in, their comments are a large part of the intellectual property that give the forum worth and meaning.
So yeah, it is theft, or at the least, denial of access to the intellectual property of the group - something that does not belong solely to the mods or the bill-payers.
I'm speaking mainly in the abstract here - not knowing much about this particular case, but it seems like a unilateral decision was made for ambiguous or unexplained reasons, and as such there seems to be a whiff of elitism and gatekeeping to me...
doesn't it depend how you view things though? i am not really keen on the idea of the language and concept of property being the defining or ultimate language of any debate, because its founded on ideas of the individual which don't make sense to me, and are tied to / reinforcing of associated dynamics that i am not keen to support. so especially in matters of such a disparate nature, i prefer not to conceptualise of the relationships involved in terms of 'property'.
i guess it reflects the fact that i use these kind of territories of experience (informal communities and communion etc) to experiment with ideas and (idealistic) intelectual impulses i have
and again thats not to say though that you can't question how the moderators have acted in this case - as i say i think your point is spot on about where value comes from, and im not in favour of monetary or necessarily managerial or time contribution as being the deciders of moral 'rights'
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D
droid
Guest
Doesn't everything?
But regarding your point about it being 'founded on ideas of the individual', my argument here is that the rights of the community have been totally superseded /ignored by the rights of a few individuals who have unilaterally decided that their rights/opinions are paramount. Anyway, as someone said its their ball and they've gone off in a huff and taken it home for whatever reason. Sure, they may nominally be within their 'rights' to do so, but when this decision is lauded as some kind of brilliant strategic/political act of scene management it irks me slightly.
Does anyone actually remember those kids who took their ball and went home when things didn't go as planned?
They were almost always acting like twats...
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I think complaining that DSF had stopped being a nice community for in depth discussion and analysis is missing the point to some extent - I mean, it used to be that, but it was also the information hub of a rapidly growing scene, and those two functions don't really overlap in a very natural way. Places like Dissensus and Subvert Central are great for serious discussion and community because they have fairly small user bases who are largely there for the discussion, and there's no way that DSF was going to continue to do that at the same time as attracting every n00b who'd heard a couple of tunes and wanted to know more.
On the other hand, it was really good to have somewhere where all the different styles within dubstep were bouncing off each other - where I could go looking for one style and end up with something completely different. I'm not sure I agree that the losing that central information feed would do dubstep good - it seems far more likely that all the substyles would just seperate off and develop into their own little worlds of cliches and limited horizons... and that includes the 'deep' 'experimental' people just as much as the wobble worshippers tbh.
On the other hand, it was really good to have somewhere where all the different styles within dubstep were bouncing off each other - where I could go looking for one style and end up with something completely different. I'm not sure I agree that the losing that central information feed would do dubstep good - it seems far more likely that all the substyles would just seperate off and develop into their own little worlds of cliches and limited horizons... and that includes the 'deep' 'experimental' people just as much as the wobble worshippers tbh.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I wonder how long it will be before nights start becoming divided along sub-generic lines ala. DNB, in which you have liquid nights, dark/tech nights, jump up nights etc.? I hope it doesn't become that compartmentalised. In a way I'd like to go to a dubstep night at which I was guaranteed not to here much/any shitty wobble, but when you start separating strands like that there's a danger of the dancefloor stuff becoming militantly banging and the deeper stuff becoming self-important and ponderous... then again, if you listen to the average wobble banger nowadays you might say that its already got to that point.
Also, with the arrival of blatantly commercial tunes like that latest Chase and Status thing (with the cheesy vocal b2b typical growling wobble), I wonder if there might also be more marked a division between commercial/mainstream dubstep and underground/experimental dubstep in the near future? Again, this has already happened, sadly enough, in the case of a lot of the bigger nights, where stuff that seemed to be almost at the core of the sound when I got into it (Vex'd, Toasty et al... today producers like Darkstar, Geiom etc.) has become marginalised and defined as 'leftfield'. I preferred it when the whole of the field leaned to the left a bit.
the dude who's not from england up thread had the right idea earlier on when he suggested that all these uk genres sound too similar for division had the right idea i think, i like that attitude.
it's a make or break time really, the idea that the dubstep forum thing was about unity was a bit of a fallacy cos how could it be if it was just about dubstep.
also music doesn't have to be deep, it can be fun too, and startlingly brilliant. the polarisation between two production production styles, ie one a bit more complicated and subtle, one about bashing out noisy aggro business already close down all the other choices too.
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I dunno. If Dub Police (or whoever) want to run a Strictly Halfstep Strictly Wobble Strictly Massive Drops policy then fair play to them if it floats their boat. There are still a lot of people out there who are interested in a broader range - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Platform 1, DOTS, Futureproof and similar nights were getting more consistent support today than FWD was in the 'golden age'.
What actually worries me more is the tendancy for anyone who's into 'deeper' stuff to construct boundaries of good taste that rule out wobbles, halfstep beats and generally silly fun stuff or viscerally exciting stuff as being 'the enemy' and only allow tastefully garagey slickness, which for my money gets almost as boring.
I sometimes wonder if more diverse nights and labels should come up with not so much a subgenre as a supergenre. Rather than keep having to explain to people (including a surprising number of fairly hip people) that dubstep isn't just aggro wobblers, why not start referring to the whole thing - wobblers, garagey tunes, minimal stuff, crunkstep and so on plus a bit of grime, bassline and funky, as 'dark garage' or something, and leave the word 'dubstep' to fend for itself?
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Yeah I could use all three of those too.
When are Rinse going to sort out their fucking website, though?
Someone's already mentioned this but I'll mention it again
because my mate's playing there (and he's also a fucking great DJ)... the rest of the lineup looks good too, not sure I can afford to go though actually
When are Rinse going to sort out their fucking website, though?
Someone's already mentioned this but I'll mention it again
because my mate's playing there (and he's also a fucking great DJ)... the rest of the lineup looks good too, not sure I can afford to go though actually
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
I like all kinds of dubstep. That includes rusko / caspa / others style jump up stuff, when it's done well, and doesn't go on all night, and preferably with flow dan over the top.