I think the issue is that the 'nuum model kind of implies that its hermetically sealed and, erm, continuous. Which was quite a good description of hardcore->darkcore->jungle->drum and bass if not a perfect one, but which then becomes less compelling when it starts jumping and branching - so we view garage as being the descendant of jungle and not part of a 'US->UK garage continuum'.or maybe they hear clearer from a distance. Of cours grime artists dont acknowledge or even know a link to bleep or whatever, but that does not mean it is not there. When i hear grime or dubstep or bassline, i hear similarities with rave, jungle and of course 2step. I even hear soul II soul and maybe even 2 tone (or LKJ for instance). I think you could expand "the nuum" in stead of shrink it.
(funky is still shit though)
As if any of this stuff (the music or the criticism) will be (worthy) of any interest in a hundred years' time...
Part of the function of the 'nuum is, tellingly, to insist that the music is strong enough to foster a significant heritage.
yep, it was bound to happen sooner or later!
i think grime, funky house and bassline have effectively killed off the hardcore continuum as a useful way of seeing what's happening in UK underground music; grime because it owes much more to crunk and dancehall than to rave or even jungle, and funky house and bassline because, well, the hardcore continuum's always had a problem slotting house music in.
I think it's a GREAT theory with really useful, broad applications.
I think it SUCKS when people start dissing grime because they don't think it's the Next Big Thing any more and use the 'nuum theory to hype up their reputation as taste-makers.
why is it then, that grime mcs often namecheck jungle as genre or even specific raves. i don't hear as many shouts to crunk artists (although i appreciate some grime people have worked with lil jon etc).
yeah, there's clearly a lot of enthusiasm for jungle in grime, and it's certainly an influence (quite explicitly in goodz's MCing or in tubby and footsie's productions, say) but i wouldn't say it's the predominant influence on grime, which is where trying to fit grime into the hardcore continuum falls down.
early on in grime people like dizzee and wiley used to talk about their music as a UK version of dirty south hiphop (and then in 2004-5 grime was very clearly Dipset influenced); seeing grime through the lens of the hardcore continuum is interesting and and be valuable, but it skews things, because it misses out the massive influence of other MC cultures, from a whole different 'continuum'.
interestingly, though, Geeneus DOES see grime and dubstep as part of the whole hardcore continuum: google my Fact interview with him if you're interested.
interestingly, though, Geeneus DOES see grime and dubstep as part of the whole hardcore continuum: google my Fact interview with him if you're interested.
Yes, and the thing is, the nuum isn't supposed to be exclusive - it's not meant to exclude hiphop from grime (or jungle... or garage... or house... or techno...) - quite the reverse! (Though I tend to see the whole nuum as essentially the story of how reggae got rooted in this country and mutated.)
The nuum-like evolution of the scenes from reggae and soul into everything else is easy to see and things like bassline house fit into that sequence. But using nuum theory to privelege bassline over grime is a misapplication of the theory, it's forcing the (fucking cunt) hipster's sneering dismissal of grime as being no longer "valuable / hot" into the theory...
... and yeah, there are plenty of people doing that. Plenty of people on this board who say "oh noone, literally noone, cares about grime any more". It's just hipster drivel.
And what makes it worse is certain critics who stopped listening to grime a few years ago and then rhetorically took their ball home with them, saying that because they were no longer listening to it, it was no longer any good. It's toss. grime in 2006 is not d&b in 1998.
Anyway they can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned.
i like bassline, but its neither new, nor innovative - not that theres anything wrong with that. its speed garage frozen in time, when the north decided they liked garage as it was then rather than the way it went with 2-step.