The Wire is over - discussion, spoilers inside

U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
So I guess all the Wire devotees on here will have seen the final episode of the final season by now. What did you all make of it? There's almost too much to talk about, I'm not sure where to begin.

Getting the ball rolling, I thought this was the weakest season by quite some way, although still absolutely fantastic, utterly absorbing and better than anything else on television. It was mostly to do with time constraints I reckon, being a couple of episodes shorter than the other seasons, but I also didn't think they had as much to say about the media as an institution as I had thought they might at the beginning of the season - it was still interesting, and necessary for the development of the plot, especially when it came to the media's role in McNulty's games, but aside from that I didn't think it added much in its own right.. compared to the docks and particularly the schools plotline in season 4. The general point of institutions like the police force and the media being plagued by the same evils came across very early, and with so many loose ends to be tied up in the last episode I thought they dedicated far too much time to that particular strand of the story.

The final montage was disappointingly hackneyed too, though it did bring a tear to my eye, I'm a sucker for sentimentality. But I didn't think we needed to have the whole 'everything moves in cycles' idea rammed home so hard.

The last few episodes were incredible though. Omar in episode 8, obviously, but the real surprise for me was just how moving I found Snoop's final scene in episode 9. Someone pointed out on another forum how the way she checked her hair at the last moment was really the first glimpse of femininity we ever got from her..

Someone write a proper post, I can't focus - it was just too good.
 
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M

Mr Jeg

suck your thumb
Honestly I have so many thoughts about this that I'm having a hard time getting them down coherently! I definitely agree that this has, unfortunately, been the weakest season - but I really think that the last 3 episodes were basically perfect and totally redeemed the rest of the season for me. The last 15 minutes of episode 9 might have affected me more than any TV ever. Certainly, I can't think of anything in recent times that has had me so close to bawling like a baby as that last scene with Michael and Duqwan.

Also thought that the handling of Omar's death in episode 8 was fantastic. Undignified and unsentimental without being callous, and perfectly illustrated that as mythical as this man might have become, he's as vulnerable and - most importantly - as insignificant (to the world outside the drug trade) as anyone.

Also gotta say that while I can understand being turned off a bit by the cheese factor, I, for one, thought the final montage was fantastic. I think that like many others, I feared that the creators might decide to go the Sopranos route and do some ambivalent "the more things change..." ending without giving us closure on so many of the characters I've come to love. Instead, it was like they decided to give a salute to the fans and basically give us what we all wanted. The closing shot of Baltimore may have been a bit hackneyed, admittedly, but the whole show has been one long love/hate letter to Baltimore, so it seemed like a totally appropriate way to end it to me. Nothing wrong with a bit of crowd pleasing. Perhaps I was just happy that my long-standing prediction that the first version of the theme song would turn up in the last episode turned out to be correct!

But I think that one of my main memories of this season, and indeed this show, will be just how attached the show has made me become to a fictional character - namely Bubbles. For literally the entire season I was terrified that he was either going to get back on the drugs or get caught up in some crossfire and get killed. It's a testament to just how damn good this show was that it had me punching the air in joy at something as minor as a former crackhead sitting down for dinner with his sister :D
 
hucks

hucks

Your Message Here
I don't wanna read this 'cos I haven't seen any of the series but v quick - Are you both using bit torrent, and, if so, what do you recommend? If you've somehow got hold of dvds I will pay all sorts of money for them
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
just been torrenting the american tele rips :) check your pms in a second

definitely don't read any of the above, sorry if anything was spoiled for you
 
nochexxx

nochexxx

harco pronting
I’ve watched every episode twice now and had been amazed at the continuous level of sustained quality. Aside from the Greeks and Bother Mouzone I didn’t find much to dislike, which is unusual for a TV fascist like me. Like Mr Jeg I also thought Omar’s death was brilliant, and the scene of Duqwan jacking up during the last montage was tear jerkingly excellent. I also liked the fact that there wasn’t any real explanation for Mc Nutty’s sudden uncontrollable booze action. My favourite scene from the final episode has to be the funeral scene with McNulty and Freamon on the table. I thought it captured a tremendous sense of finality.
 
benjybars

benjybars

village elder.
UFO over easy said:
The final montage was disappointingly hackneyed too, though it did bring a tear to my eye as I'm a sucker for all that kind of stuff. I'm sentimental by nature. But I didn't think we needed to have the whole 'everything moves in cycles' idea rammed home so hard.
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i thought the final montage was amazing... but then i LOVE the montage scenes.. i was sort of hoping the last episode would be one giant montage actually.
 
G

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
President George Bush marked the end of The Wire by visiting the set of s2 yesterday...

20080318-4_p031808cg-0338-515h.jpg


...although his pledge to stimulate the economy by "getting a re-up on that good package" met with confusion on Wall St.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
UFO over easy said:
just how moving I found Snoop's final scene in episode 9. Someone pointed out on another forum how the way she checked her hair at the last moment was really the first glimpse of femininity we ever got from her..
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I'll avoid any reference to the obvious sexism of this post to point out that I don't think Snoop's pride in her hair at this scene was at all a manifestation of her inherent but usually absent traditional "femininity", but in fact a reference to pride in one's appearance in general that becomes important to all types of people, but especially to people with "black" textured hair that is tough to take care of and keep up.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
it would probably be just be "re-upping on that package"

did bush really go there to talk about the wire? insanity
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
nomadologist said:
I'll avoid any reference to the obvious sexism of this post to point out that I don't think Snoop's pride in her hair at this scene was at all a manifestation of her inherent but usually absent traditional "femininity", but in fact a reference to pride in one's appearance in general that becomes important to all types of people, but especially to people with "black" textured hair that is tough to take care of and keep up.
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"how my hair look?"

"you look good, girl"

give it a rest.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
UFO over easy said:
"how my hair look?"

"you look good, girl"

give it a rest.
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Why don't you give it a rest? Snoop was obviously not too concerned about "gendering" herself female. There's tons of lesbian relationship dynamics in the show, and though I don't remember them ever getting into Snoop's sexuality, it seems safe to say that her performance was rather butch.

People say "girl" after every and anything, the word "girl" is not exactly the operative word here.

This is what happens when people have NO IDEA about the slang they're listening to and its actual connotations.
 
nochexxx

nochexxx

harco pronting
considering he had hired herc as a private investigator could someone explain why marlo would trust working with maurice levey?
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
ascoltare said:
considering he had hired herc as a private investigator could someone explain why marlo would trust working with maurice levey?
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because defense attorneys are 100% self-interested, i.e., marlo knew that he was going to be a lucrative enough client that levy would have no reason to betray him or back down from representing him due to some sort of sudden scrupulous change of heart...
 
nochexxx

nochexxx

harco pronting
nomadologist said:
because defense attorneys are 100% self-interested, i.e., marlo knew that he was going to be a lucrative enough client that levy would have no reason to betray him or back down from representing him due to some sort of sudden scrupulous change of heart...
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sure that's pretty obvious. what doesn't add up for me is marlo knowingly working alongside levy whilst herc is in the equation, afterall him and herc have had previous beef and he's ex police!!!
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
nomadologist said:
Why don't you give it a rest? Snoop was obviously not too concerned about "gendering" herself female. There's tons of lesbian relationship dynamics in the show, and though I don't remember them ever getting into Snoop's sexuality, it seems safe to say that her performance was rather butch.

People say "girl" after every and anything, the word "girl" is not exactly the operative word here.

This is what happens when people have NO IDEA about the slang they're listening to and its actual connotations.
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lol, and this is what happens when you cross multiple neuroses with extreme self importance

I'm struggling to think of any other time anyone referred to Snoop as 'girl', operative word or not.. maybe Marlo did once or twice.. and to just dismiss something like that in one of the most crucial scenes in the entire show I think is a mistake. I've been watching season 4 again recently and people are certainly not saying 'girl' after everything and anything to Snoop. She's not normal, and nor is the way people address her - the fact that she wasn't concerned with 'gendering' herself is stating the obvious, and it's the only reason her behaviour in that final scene is worth commenting on. I think there's enough of a grey area there anyway for it to have been an interesting observation (it wasn't even my observation come to that, I just thought it was a comment worth replicating here), and I think I have a right to be a bit annoyed when people start flinging around accusations of mysogeny.

Possible lesbianism is interesting, but again at least as unfounded as anything I said. But I suppose that kind of observation is safe to make around you guys, as it's about subversion - there's some nice intellectual reverse snobbery going on here I feel; if a role is reversed or subverted it's cool, but if something reinforces traditional societal roles it becomes offensive. It seems to be as though the only way to be safe from these kind of accusations is to live in some make believe world where gender is non-existent and irrelevant, but I don't believe either of those are true. Whether you like it or not Snoop's involvement in an aspect of that world which is so obviously dominated not only by males but by caricatures of the dominant, aggressive male, is interesting, just because it's so unusual. Of course her performance was butch, but then that could just be a reaction to an environment in which that was absolutely necessary. The dynamic between her and Chris through seasons 4 and 5 was very subtley played out and could be read in a number of different ways as well.

None of it's simple, all of our observations are unfounded (we're talking about fiction here remember, even if it is 'the most accurate cop show on tv' or whatever), and I'm not a sexist.

So there :p
 
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B

booky

Member
As a lurker of sorts, I've been reading this thread and wanting to write something--enough to register. Anyhow, thanks for saying a lot of what I wanted to say.
 
benjybars

benjybars

village elder.
UFO over easy said:
lol, and this is what happens when you cross multiple neuroses with extreme self importance

I'm struggling to think of any other time anyone referred to Snoop as 'girl', operative word or not.. maybe Marlo did once or twice.. and to just dismiss something like that in one of the most crucial scenes in the entire show I think is a mistake. I've been watching season 4 again recently and people are certainly not saying 'girl' after everything and anything to Snoop. She's not normal, and nor is the way people address her - the fact that she wasn't concerned with 'gendering' herself is stating the obvious, and it's the only reason her behaviour in that final scene is worth commenting on. I think there's enough of a grey area there anyway for it to have been an interesting observation (it wasn't even my observation come to that, I just thought it was a comment worth replicating here), and I think I have a right to be a bit annoyed when people start flinging around accusations of mysogeny.

Possible lesbianism is interesting, but again at least as unfounded as anything I said. But I suppose that kind of observation is safe to make around you guys, as it's about subversion - there's some nice intellectual reverse snobbery going on here I feel; if a role is reversed or subverted it's cool, but if something reinforces traditional societal roles it becomes offensive. It seems to be as though the only way to be safe from these kind of accusations is to live in some make believe world where gender is non-existent and irrelevant, but I don't believe either of those are true. Whether you like it or not Snoop's involvement in an aspect of that world which is so obviously dominated not only by males but by caricatures of the dominant, aggressive male, is interesting, just because it's so unusual. Of course her performance was butch, but then that could just be a reaction to an environment in which that was absolutely necessary. The dynamic between her and Chris through seasons 4 and 5 was very subtley played out and could be read in a number of different ways as well.

None of it's simple, all of our observations are unfounded (we're talking about fiction here remember, even if it is 'the most accurate cop show on tv' or whatever), and I'm not a sexist.

So there :p
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yeah well said.

nice video of snoop here...

has anyone read her book yet? i work in a bookshop and ordered 25 copies (!) a few weeks ago.. still haven't sold any yet..
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
I worked in a bookshop for a while as well benjy! lovely little independant type jobby, was great :) you got a link to her book? i'm lazy
 
benjybars

benjybars

village elder.
UFO over easy said:
I worked in a bookshop for a while as well benjy! lovely little independant type jobby, was great :) you got a link to her book? i'm lazy
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unfortunately i work in the biggest bookshop in europe so it's not so lovely and independent! although it does mean i can sit in a cupboard for an hour and no-one notices...

here's the book... i flicked through it at work.. looks pretty heavy-going. well worth a read tho.

Amazon product ASIN 0446195189
 
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