xenakis

i don't have that one but $12 for a new xenakis cd sounds like a bargain

"Electronic Works" is great and so is "La Legend D'eer"

If it's the 'electro -acoustic works ' that has pieces partially made by mic'ing up burning charcoal
that's pretty great stuff.
Is "Bohor" is one of the pieces ?

the EMF 'electronic music' CD contains the entirety of the 'electro-acoustic music' LP, plus additional nice music

I've never heard the original LP, but a friend who has says that it sounds remarkably different, especially the low end on 'Bohor'. I'm definitely looking to buy a copy to compare, those are some of my favorite pieces of his.

The other two must own electronic pieces: 'Legend D'eer' and 'Persepolis'. There are three or four very different mixes of 'Persepolis', my favorite is on my the two disc 'Iannis Xenakis' set on Edition RZ, which is also has a _great_ selection of orchestral works.

Meredith Monk's 'Gotham Lullaby', as championed by Bjork, is magical.

Ashley's "wolfman", reissued recently, is a monster. harsh noise, basically

this doesn't answer your question in any way, but the best electroacoustic music i've heard is done by Bernard Parmegiani and Francois Bayle- i would buy anything by those guys on sight

when i was in Tucson, Arizona i scored a copy of a Bayle LP on Phillips- shiny silver series. $5. cover in mint condition, vinyl not much better than a frisbee. i bought it for the cover, really...

this Tucson store had lots of electroacoustic LPs- but they were priced by how well the composers are known- so Stockhausen and Cage LPs were all $30 to $50

'Legend D'eer' and 'Persepolis' are lush, you used to be able to get this kinda stuff at http://www.theserecords.com/files/mointro.html in the uk but they closed down, starting up again in some other form i think. xenakis is superior to stockie i think
anyone heard todd dockstader?

parmegiani - de natura sonorum is ace. you know he wrote the jingle for charles de gaulle airport?

curtis roads out of the moderns is lush too

mms said:

anyone heard todd dockstader?

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oh yes! genius- the two reissue CDs that seem to go in and out of print have tons of goodness

parmegiani - de natura sonorum is ace. you know he wrote the jingle for charles de gaulle airport?

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no i did not know that!

dude - if you don't own Electro-Acoustic Works on vinyl - BUY IT !

CLASSIC !!! BRUTAL AMBIENT !!!

I remember hearing some Parmegiani records bk in the 1980's
glad the thread came round to him .
One of the greats ...

Snap up that Xenakis B
they don't make like him anymore , either .

While some of this music you can't listen to all the time, or in any situation
if you don't know it or haven't heard it /checked it ,
you miss out on some of the building blocks of now

Xenakis RIP , architect of sound indeed

blissblogger said:

it's the vinyl original on Nonesuch, Electro-Acoustic Works

the pieces are:
diamorphoses II/bohor 1/concret ph II/orient-occident III

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you need this simon - and $12 does seem rather cheap - I never see Xenakis on vinyl.

hey, anyone know if there are like diamorphoses I, orient-occident 1 and II, conceret ph I, bohor 2, 3,4 etc?

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Yeah - Orient-Occident I was from 1960 whereas III is 1968 - Diamorphoses I is from 1957, II from '68... As far as Bohor goes I know there are 8- and 4-channel tape versions so maybe that's Bohor I/II - not sure of that one though. Concret PH I from 1958, II in '68. Does anyone know why Xenakis versioned all these works in '68?

1/ certain records go real cheap i've found -- certain Varese albums, Cage's HPSCHD (nonesuch) -- whereas certain titles by stockhausen or xenakis are selling for 50 dollars plus in Other Music, up on the wall.

is that cos they printed a lot at the time, or cos they're bad (the cage one is horrible) ?

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Couldn't answer this one beyond agreeing that HPSCHD is pretty bad, the Varese LPs are always a good listen tho'. Maybe it's to do with demand. Stockhausen vinyl is always hugely expensive these days (slaps self on head for not buying them 10 years ago when I saw 12 Stocky records for $10 ea.)

5/ Robert Ashley?

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The Automatic Writing CD on Lovely (I think) is one of my favourite av-classical discs - the title piece an all-time classic. I sometimes enjoy Ashley's 'operas', but often struggle with them. Perfect Lives is a bit of a hard one to get through at times. Still, I think that, along with David Behrman (whose On the Other Ocean is one of my favourite pieces of music ever) he's the best of the 'Sonic Arts Union' (Alvin Lucier runs a close third.)

6/ Annea Lockwood?

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Sound Map of the Hudson River absolutely lovely.

If you're dead keen on getting more Xenakis I always point people to La Legende d'Eer and Kraanerg.

mms said:

anyone heard todd dockstader?

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The CD which has both Water Music and Quatermass is really worth it.

xenakis kicks ass!!!

Simon that LP/CD it's a mastepiece, really, I just used to listen to it together with Aphex SAW II for some reason they seemed like the soundreams of hidden chemical reactions (...uh??)

I used to have a cdrom copy of the EMF CD of which this is the tracklist:

Xenakis: Electronic Music - Electronic Music Foundation EMF CD 003 (1997)

Diamorphoses (1957) - electroacoustic tape
Concret PH (1958) - electroacoustic tape
Orient-Occident (1960) - electroacoustic tape
Bohor (1962) - electroacoustic tape
Hibiki-Hana-Ma (1970) - electroacoustic tape
S.709 (1994) - electroacoustic tape

for what I know doesn't exist different versions of those tracks or other tracks with same title different numbers on others issued LPs or CDs (bad sound masterization of the CDs apart), so my theory is that actually the number on the tracks, which i didn't notice at all on my friends CD (neither is present on the tracklist above that i cut and past from a Xenakis site, see later), but you noticed on the original vinyl, can be Xenakis referring to the sessions takes, like "concrete pH, take 2". My theory (if i'm wrong please someone tell me!!).

Concrete pH is one of my favorite pieces ever and I have also in some anthology, always referred as "concrete pH" with no number added and no mention of other versions.

This seems confirmed by this site i checked:
http://www.iema.culture.gr/xenakis/index_en.html
which also have sound sample of the pieces.

About why some vinyls cost low and other high it's a mystery to me now; unluckily it's years that i buy only CDs not having a record player plus stereo at hand while living from home to home. About Nono the final Opera "Prometheus" maybe you have not listened too, since it came only on double Cd, if interested in a copy let me know (I have this with me luckily, while the main part of my cd/vinyl collection is 1.500 km away from there!!)

Meredith Monk i used to didn't like, but maybe listened to the wrong records (the ones on ECM) and it was so long ago that most i forgot how it sounded and now i'm curious to know more and when possible listen to something more.

ciao da francesco

francesco said:

My theory (if i'm wrong please someone tell me!!).

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I was totally wrong, thanks JWD for the info!
Where did you get it?

SO the EMF CD I listened and the '68 LP on Nonesuch are different versions. Remixes?


ciao da francesco

blissblogger said:

is that cos they printed a lot at the time, or cos they're bad (the cage one is horrible) ?

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I actually think HPSCHD is quite enjoyable for the concept alone, it's just so wonderfully ridiculous. Not that I hear it often (if ever) of course, and I'm certainly glad I didn't pay more than 10 kr. (that's £1) for it, but it's just pre-empting some of the V/Vm cod-avant garde so perfectly.

Anyway, I doub't any electro-acoustic avant garde will ever be cheap simply because it's bad. But maybe if it's bad and everybody knows it.

blissblogger said:

3/ what about Morton Subotnik after Silver Apples and Wild Bulls he's got a shit load of stuff in the 80s, that goes quite cheap i've noticed

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I've only got A Sky of Cloudless Sulphur, which is nice, but nowhere near as mindmelting. Sounds much more "serious" I'd say, with less of SAotM and WBs mayhem.

As for odd gems, I recommend Gunnar Møller Pedersens Et Lydår if you ever get near it. Has moments of beautyful, if completely non-melodic, proto-glitch/idyllitronica.

I was lucky enough to see Parmegiani play some of his music at the Autechre-curated All Tomorrows Parties - he was a dapper little geezer in a cardigan who worked the mixing desk in the centre of the upstairs room while the stage was totally empty - v. disorientating, esp. when the music (which was often quite harsh, and fequently sounded like a ball being bounced) was played through the quadrophonic speaker system - Bernie P seemed very aware abt space/volume 'issues' - a magical hour


Ashley's 'Automatic Writing' was the starting point (sample source?) for one particular Nurse With Wound alb, but I can't remember which one

Jazzbo said:

Ashley's 'Automatic Writing' was the starting point (sample source?) for one particular Nurse With Wound alb, but I can't remember which one

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NWW "A Missing Sense".
"Automatic Writing" was Stapleton favorite LP to listen while on LSD.

ciao da francesco

francesco said:

I was totally wrong, thanks JWD for the info!
Where did you get it?

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Hmm well I might be totally wrong!

But I remembered it from reading through some stuff I printed off the web which documented Xenakis' works & variations. This ISN'T what I printed out but it has much the same info:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/eli.ichie/framesx.html

ie. under Concret PH it credits the original yr as 1958 and then continues to say: "The tape was created at GRM (Groupe de Recherches Musicales) in Paris, France and was played, together with Varèse's Poème électronique inside the Philips pavillion, during the World Fair in Brussels. A revised version of the piece was made in 1968 (Concret PH II)"

This joint is pretty much the place to be for Xenakis info.

Jon

blissblogger said:

it's the vinyl original on Nonesuch, Electro-Acoustic Works

the pieces are:
diamorphoses II/bohor 1/concret ph II/orient-occident III

sounded good in the store, but the 12 buck price tag seemed oddly low

hey, anyone know if there are like diamorphoses I, orient-occident 1 and II, conceret ph I, bohor 2, 3,4 etc?

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the one with the blue graphic on the cover. yeah get that its extremely good, ive seen it rated highly by the real experts too!

la legende d'eer would be my favourite xenakis record, that is literally overpowering/wonderful/mind-blowing.

blissblogger said:

at the risk of inundation/system overload, some further questions for the avant-classical massif:

1/ certain records go real cheap i've found -- certain Varese albums, Cage's HPSCHD (nonesuch) -- whereas certain titles by stockhausen or xenakis are selling for 50 dollars plus in Other Music, up on the wall.

is that cos they printed a lot at the time, or cos they're bad (the cage one is horrible) ?

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theres a certain snobbery attached to some labels wergo/phillips/inagrm. people can favour original european editions. theres a swathe of records that crop up a great deal, often cos they (freakishly) must have recieved a good distribution at the time. as such if theyre more common, they can be cheaper. its often NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER OF QUALITY. sometimes theyre the best ones.

blissblogger said:

2/ what do we think of luigi nono? he seems kinda interesting, political avant-classical, rabid communist right? he's another one i've picked up lots of bits reasonably priced

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curiously if the records are electronic people dont tend to be interested in them. guilty of this myself.

blissblogger said:

3/ what about Morton Subotnik after Silver Apples and Wild Bulls he's got a shit load of stuff in the 80s, that goes quite cheap i've noticed

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again a lot of people bought silver apples at the time. lots of copies in circulation. "touch" is the one with morton. i have "sidewinder" too which is excellent.

blissblogger said:

4/ what do we reckon on Meredith Monk then?

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i had "dolmen music" on lovely (a really underrated label) and i got rid of it.

blissblogger said:

5/ Robert Ashley?

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again on lovely, which is a new york label, which makes nuff sense given your geography. i have "private parts". he's a lesser figure like Meredith Monk. Gordon Mumma of that crew is probably the most serious dude.

blissblogger said:

6/ Annea Lockwood?

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pass

blissblogger said:

7/ charles wuorinen?

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seen his stuff about. but never been tempted to pick any up.

blissblogger said:

8/ okay, finally, doesn anyone actually enjoy the stuff on that label CTI (is that right? you know the one i mean, any road, peter maxwell davies up the wazoo). Cos that stuff goes for like 4 dollars a pop, the only thing lower on the desirability front is Eastern Bloc post=war composers.... i quite like the covers but stuff that's avant but uses conventional orchestras seems like the worst of both worlds, somehow

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CTI. sighs with feigned exhaustaion. there are some cool harry partch records on it. i suspect iueke may know some good other ones, but its a bit of a wasteland. too orchestral like you say (see comments above about use of electronics)

blissblogger said:

yrs
the canny shopper

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