Why Do Millenials Hate Genre?

john eden

male pale and stale
John, without trying to kiss up to you, that's possibly a reflection of you and not every kid is going to be as good as yours obviously. And not to sound like I'm baiting you but objectively there's no doubt people inflicting the expectations on your daughter as much as she might NOT do that.

But then again you're in London and maybe my American-ness influences that expectation though...

Ha! No worries, she is a good kid so I dunno. I think a lot of this stuff is mainly about boys/blokes anyway, isn't it?

I make no claims for objectivity about the youth, just adding in my perspective really.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Dubstep was never underground if we're being honest with ourselves.

I have some sympathy with that - I think by the time it was dubstep it was pretty easy to hear about. Loads of threads on dubstep forum about "protecting the scene" etc and the "wrong" people getting into it.

But people definitely were trying to will it into being underground or the next phase of the 'arkdore continuum, something like jungle but for their generation...
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
millenials dont have the luxury of genre wars - its easy to get all tribal about genre when there is an identifiable route to making money from said genre. when there isnt, you have to try a bit of everything. like in the early days of recorded music, where many/most musicians would do it all.
millennials are more into collaboration than conflict
their parents fought the genre wars so this generation didnt have to
genre wars were only fought cos people were blind/blinkered/shut off to/didnt know FA about other genres - now you get rock, rap, dance music, all being played side by side on things like the annie mac show

i think the death of genre is overstated. the idea that all young ppl now like everything is also kind of erroneous. the new tribes are hung together by other descriptors/aesthetics.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
I said that they HATED genre, not that genre is actually dead.

But your points about the ambiguity of how to make money from that is probably very close to the matter.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
I said that they HATED genre, not that genre is actually dead.

But your points about the ambiguity of how to make money from that is probably very close to the matter.

well millenials are kinda hippy ish in their idealism so it's no surprise

plus who wants all that old boring genre war shit which must seem so old and ancient
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
That's a misnomer, not every millenial is into social justice and identity politics. Plenty are nihilistic and apathetic, and some are incredibly traditionalist and conservative in numbers of ways. That there hasn't been a Millenial rebranding of the Hippie the way you could argue crusties or ravers embodied some of that spirit says a bit.

I gotta double back and argue Napster is what did it. Luka was right to say 'the deasthetication of music devalued it' w/ the iPod/iTunes but imho its rather 'the devaluing of music deastheticized it'. It's a chicken or egg type scenario, but iTunes really is the attempt to financially put your finger in the metaphorical dike of the fact that for the past 17 years, music has existed with the premise "Its not really worth money, is it?" lingering in the background. Obviously tape recording off the radio or even wholesale copying existed before then. But there was never services or communities built around the underlying principle of "Why should money stop me from enjoying music?"

As a result, music does not have power. The idea of the collector of a niche genre like say Northern Soul or whatever is not basing his interests around aesthetic value but rather on depreciation and scarcity. The records become either super cheap, or super overpriced, never what their value was at the time of living in the moment. They essentially become trading cards or exclusive sneakers, or stocks and bonds. The documents themselves rarely hold their value for their service (I say that while my own collection is winking at my fucking face and taunting me for serving a lot of similar goals).

So if the items themselves are useless, the indicators of style, of choice, are likewise made archaic. Instead music becomes a weird, smeary, glob effect of music for music's sake that is unwilling to limit itself. Every choice becomes no choice.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
That "devaluation of music thing" is an interesting aspect, bc IMO it clearly began with the dance era. Before that you'd buy an album, or a single of a singer/group you'd like and go to the concerts - which also did only last for maybe 2 hours - you would pay quite some money for the product.

With dance all of a sudden you'd have a muscial experience more often, longer hours. As great as the music was, and also the collective experience on the dancefloor, the music as a thing you'd pay for got "devalued" in so far that you pay the entrance fee for the club and enjoyed 5 hrs of music for a bargain really.
 

Numbers

Well-known member
it clearly began with the dance era.

I think you could quite easily argue that every technological invention relevant to music, from notation to reproduction media, has in a certain sense had the double outcome of both facilitating the growing omnipresence of music and, by a consequence, feedings its devaluation. To a point we'd now probably rather pay for silence than for music.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
That's a misnomer, not every millenial is into social justice and identity politics. Plenty are nihilistic and apathetic, and some are incredibly traditionalist and conservative in numbers of ways.

This reframes the question quite a bit. The term 'millennial' to my mind means white, middle class, university educated, politically correct, etc. and I'd agree that those people don't identify with genres. But if you're broadening the definition to anyone born between 1990 and 2000 then you can't really say they don't identify with genre. In London afrobeats is very much a symbol of identity. Bashment was until the last couple of years. UK drill. Mumble rap's evoked a bit of genre war. A couple of years ago weren't there tons of LA artists explicitly flying the flag for west coast hip hop; whether that be mustard-style beats or G-funk influenced things (this is more your expertise than mine)?
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
barty;

I personally feel, as a reflection of how the industry compartmentalizes itself, that class affects how we view music. Streaming has become the current ecology of 'modernity' of music, and likewise artists are encouraged to not only make records that suit streaming (there's a big conspiracy that albums have over 22+ tracks these days to ensure the profits made from streaming to bolster the reputations of albums that will not be purchased) whereas records who sell a lot of units get very little to no recognition. In the US, Kevin Gates sold well in the 6 figure range in rap, and is one of the most popular artists in radio and occasionally in streaming... but in the deep rural south among mostly black listeners, who are not considered a desirable audience. Eminem is likewise as much in the rural west away from urban areas. And those are two rap artists who are mostly looked at with derision by 'young, hip, net savvy' kids on the internet.

I don't think it's entirely unfair that, because of circumstances of their environment that makes them less self-conscious... A lot of those persons don't fall into the expectations of the millenial you outlined. Not to say that it's because they're from parts of america that makes them less of anything than those who do. But these artists have no media power. They exist within the music industry and do significantly well, but have nothing that makes them feel aesthetic value. The active process of that traditional source of income within music, sales, is getting moved past so aggressively thanks to technology that the music industry is literally cutting itself away from turning back. And I don't think it's entirely coincidental that those artists are such codified genre artists as well.

I should actually clarify... I think that rather than establish a financial class, the internet has been establishing classes of technological familiarity that almost work along social class lines. You can be from any educational, social, racial, etc. backgrounds and the connection to yourself and your identity along these 'networked' lines makes it hard to unplug once you've had access to this sense of connectivity. To the point now artists have separate careers outside of traditional media based solely around internet fame where if you're not the person who's plugged in, none of it makes any sense because they don't have that 'real world' fame.

The thing is, for almost a full decade, Road Rap existed outside of the internet's eye. It was there, it racked up huge numbers, it was big but the internet didn't touch it primarily. That changes at a certain point over the last few years with Drill which is in itself a hijacking of a Real World rap culture from America. The reality of the road rap identity dissolves with acts like 67 or Section Boyz, talking about trapping, drillers, stolen catchphrases from Chief Keef and Drake. That isn't an American identity per se, its an internet identity an identity formed by the homogenity. And like that, we're seeing much much more of the media acknowledging and liking Road Rap, especially now that grime's nostalgia value was oversaturated in the wake of grime in the 2010s being less about people mixing mutual genre baggage into conforming into an acceptable identity of an MC.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
I think you could quite easily argue that every technological invention relevant to music, from notation to reproduction media, has in a certain sense had the double outcome of both facilitating the growing omnipresence of music and, by a consequence, feedings its devaluation. To a point we'd now probably rather pay for silence than for music.

Funny thing that touches on everything you say: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/all-power-to-the-pack-rats/
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
obv if youre poor, spotify, and whatever other streaming services arent going to mean anything to you. thats the internet in general. the problem of everything going online assumes everyone has easy access to the internet, and that they know how to use it. but most genres today are on the net, on youtube, whether youre in the favelas or on a peckham housing estate. its the cheapest way to get heard and distribute your music. i would say yeah theres prob plenty kids in south london who arent really that interested in much outside rap (i cant imagine there are many only into road rap however.... though who knows), but the idea of it being like the 90s where youd get people ferociously defending their genre, or attacking other genres, is pretty much moot. even today with grime, as its become something more mainstream, no one is really getting into any genre wars. its more 'grime is good' rather than 'grime is good... your genre is shit'. that defensive posture isnt there. or needed maybe. cos if youre into grime, youre prob seeking it out and theres enough outlets all on the web for you to feel youre being catered to. the attitude is more about 'i want my place' rather than 'fuck your place.. im taking your place'.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
barty;

I personally feel, as a reflection of how the industry compartmentalizes itself, that class affects how we view music. Streaming has become the current ecology of 'modernity' of music, and likewise artists are encouraged to not only make records that suit streaming (there's a big conspiracy that albums have over 22+ tracks these days to ensure the profits made from streaming to bolster the reputations of albums that will not be purchased) whereas records who sell a lot of units get very little to no recognition. In the US, Kevin Gates sold well in the 6 figure range in rap, and is one of the most popular artists in radio and occasionally in streaming... but in the deep rural south among mostly black listeners, who are not considered a desirable audience. Eminem is likewise as much in the rural west away from urban areas. And those are two rap artists who are mostly looked at with derision by 'young, hip, net savvy' kids on the internet.

I don't think it's entirely unfair that, because of circumstances of their environment that makes them less self-conscious... A lot of those persons don't fall into the expectations of the millenial you outlined. Not to say that it's because they're from parts of america that makes them less of anything than those who do. But these artists have no media power. They exist within the music industry and do significantly well, but have nothing that makes them feel aesthetic value. The active process of that traditional source of income within music, sales, is getting moved past so aggressively thanks to technology that the music industry is literally cutting itself away from turning back. And I don't think it's entirely coincidental that those artists are such codified genre artists as well.

I should actually clarify... I think that rather than establish a financial class, the internet has been establishing classes of technological familiarity that almost work along social class lines. You can be from any educational, social, racial, etc. backgrounds and the connection to yourself and your identity along these 'networked' lines makes it hard to unplug once you've had access to this sense of connectivity. To the point now artists have separate careers outside of traditional media based solely around internet fame where if you're not the person who's plugged in, none of it makes any sense because they don't have that 'real world' fame.

The thing is, for almost a full decade, Road Rap existed outside of the internet's eye. It was there, it racked up huge numbers, it was big but the internet didn't touch it primarily. That changes at a certain point over the last few years with Drill which is in itself a hijacking of a Real World rap culture from America. The reality of the road rap identity dissolves with acts like 67 or Section Boyz, talking about trapping, drillers, stolen catchphrases from Chief Keef and Drake. That isn't an American identity per se, its an internet identity an identity formed by the homogenity. And like that, we're seeing much much more of the media acknowledging and liking Road Rap, especially now that grime's nostalgia value was oversaturated in the wake of grime in the 2010s being less about people mixing mutual genre baggage into conforming into an acceptable identity of an MC.

Hahaha (Frankie Boyle voice) you actually wrote that crap
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I don't think it's entirely unfair that, because of circumstances of their environment that makes them less self-conscious... A lot of those persons don't fall into the expectations of the millenial you outlined.

Explain your cock fucking explanations you cock

No, really. Go on.
 
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