FACTS

luka

Well-known member
I wanted to, tbh, I was momentarily startled and confused working out what I would like to/be willing to read.

I think what would be best for both of us is something we have been putting off reading, out of a sense of trepidation. Something which feels like a substantial hill to climb, but needs climbing.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Well, leaving novels out of it cos I know you hate them...

The Divine Comedy
Shakespeare (in general - though I suppose you've done this)
Ulysses (only technically a novel)
Four Quartets
The Prelude (either edition, I suppose?)

Blake is definitely one I've been avoiding, too.
 

luka

Well-known member
I haven't done all Shakespeare. Not done, for instance, merchant of Venice. I haven't done othello basically.y cos I find it too upsetting I've realised. Four quartets I know fairly well and is too easy. Ulysses is too long. I want something we can steam through in a week or absolute max two weeks
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Surely a respect for facts goes with political commitments? You don't strike me as having those sort of commitments Luka, thus your penchant for conspiracies (for instance). Not having a go, just a difference in perspectives. I like facts and history, I wish political discourse was better and more fact-based, and I enjoy reading history.

Seeing fact-free discourse in circulation with regard to Syria say, saddens my greatly, and only strengthens the hand of greatly reactionary forces. I can't say I've made some kind of self-sacrificing commitment in my interest here - I really haven't - but "what really happened" is important when it comes to war crimes, atrocities and so on. Thus my hostility to conspiracies - I've seen them employed so cynically and negatively so frequently. Different interests and temperaments I guess.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I've been reading extracts from Yeats's memoirs the last few days, I really want to read the whole thing but I don't know how easy it is to get hold of. Have you read them? I think you'd like them based on what I've read of them.


Shakespeare wise what I'd like to do is read Henry IV pt 1 (Again) and Henry IV pt 2 (for the first time).
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Isn't to commit to facts and a position kinda courageous in a way? Kinda reminds me of what you were saying about Barty in the Migos thread.
 

luka

Well-known member
Go on Danny. Make the argument. I can see one way in which that would be the case but I also see a whole host of dangers.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I own it. I've read bits. A vain, silly man.

There's some great stuff from his dad in there - his dad said something like all contemplative men being in a conspiracy to establish the superiority of their way of life.
 

luka

Well-known member
There's some great stuff from his dad in there - his dad said something like all contemplative men being in a conspiracy to establish the superiority of their way of life.

Timothy Leary had that notion. He thought it was what Gravitys Rainbow is about. Ezra Pound is another one who believed in a counter conspiracy of the intelligent and independent.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Go on Danny. Make the argument. I can see one way in which that would be the case but I also see a whole host of dangers.

I think the argument is self evident no? "On this rock, I build my castle" - this is a truth I assert and commit to. Will make sacrifices for, will argue for and defend. A centre of meaning around which to build life? I find that more compelling than a kinda "nothing is true" relativism.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
His dad railed against abstractions, rating Keats above Shelley on that basis (and hated Raphael for perfection that is really hypocrisy).

Yeats seems to have rebelled against him through mysticism and, latterly, a love of abstractions.
 

luka

Well-known member
I think the argument is self evident no? "On this rock, I build my castle" - this is a truth I assert and commit to. Will make sacrifices for, will argue for and defend. A centre of meaning around which to build life? I find that more compelling than a kinda "nothing is true" relativism.

Oh, ok, that's not what I thought you meant. I don't have a nothing is true relativism. I fall very firmly into the former camp. An essentially religious conviction.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Moral I was thinking - this is good, this is bad. Which ties in with politics to me, though most politics is far from moral.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
But there is some sort of relationship... hard to pin down though?
That quote from before that was "obviously" Pynchon - I would have guessed Fielding or Thackeray or someone, seems exactly the kind of musings they riff on in their novels. Was Pynchon consciously aping their style?
 
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