Capitalism, Marxism and Related Matters

luka

Well-known member
I think there must be another Cyril but I can't locate him in the Internet, I need help
 

vimothy

yurp
poor vim. i thought he was vague and non-committal, but here he's making proper concrete statements. his vagueness is out of fatigue with being harangued and a healthy, well deserved contempt for everyone on the forum.

idk if you remember, but things were a lot more obvious in 2008
 

luka

Well-known member
Sounds good. I don't have a background in philosophy but I'll have a crack at this all the same.
 

luka

Well-known member
Some of the strongest voices have always been far right voices like craners. I don't have a problem with this. I think it's helpful for everyone involved.
 

other_life

bioconfused
some minor inaccuracies: i dont remember marsilio ficino being commissioned to translate the zohar (translating that kind of aramaic is difficult, it took daniel matt long enough) and quoting the emerald tablet as "the beginning of the hermetic corpus" (certainly not in the two translations i've read) but it's nitpicking anyhow
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
One for the Finchley Shaik


yeah, this debate is boring. capitalism isn't exclusively a) private ownership of production that existed in feudalism and tributary societies as well, it's the dispossession of the peasantry from her means of production and subsistance. B) capitalism also isn't historically condensed value, as weirdo american edgelord uncircumcised Miller would have it, it is the need to create more value to destroy already condensed and dead labour. this is why automation is a red herring.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
So specifically with Vim and others like him,there's a kicking out at the tyranny, the intolerance of liberalism, with liberalism as the stifling, all pervasive dominant ideology, impossible to escape from. And it's kept quite abstract usually, quite vague and suggestive but you do have to ask yourself what freedoms, specifically, do these people want to claim for themselves? What personal desires are being thwarted? Because more often than not its something grubby and tawdry like the 'right' to be a racist or whatever. The abstraction is grounded in something, always.


Their personal desire is whitehouse. except they already have it. If it is really beyond a personal desire then they might as well go full fash. This is also why William Bennett doesn't make fascist art, that would be more like Queen. His art is liberal art par excellence. Similar with Death in June, although Doug P is at least consistent in this and is pretty much making money out of idiotic liberal transgressives... As in, doug p is making liberal art that passes itself off as fascist to fund his fascist activity by fucking with the heads of gullable liberals because they still think its ambiguous. this is why i got moody at corpsey's right wing abomination comment, liberal-conservative rightists don't even have artistic standards, so how can they even have abominations? Only we can call their lack of standards abominable. there isn't a pure right wing art.
 
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sadmanbarty

Well-known member
theres never been a left wing or anti capaitalist consensus on dissensus, ever.

It’s a bit like this weird idea that people on dissensus hate rock and love rap, rnb and dancehall when in actuality everyone there’s about three of us like those things and the stuff that gets the most traction is dbeat, Bob Dylan and arcade fire
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Some of the strongest voices have always been far right voices like craners. I don't have a problem with this. I think it's helpful for everyone involved.


leave ollie alone he's working on his kegel exercises fascists need to contribute to the social production of the species, after all.
 

luka

Well-known member
It’s a bit like this weird idea that people on dissensus hate rock and love rap, rnb and dancehall when in actuality everyone there’s about three of us like those things and the stuff that gets the most traction is dbeat, Bob Dylan and arcade fire

Odd isn't it.
 

other_life

bioconfused
"‘Neoliberalism’ and ‘financialisation’ are expressions favoured by opportunists in their efforts to avoid using the word ‘imperialism’. Such terms are at best descriptive, more usually a smokescreen to disguise theoretical barrenness and in the end, a way of smuggling in their support for Keynesian solutions to the crisis which are then described as socialist."
how accurate would u say this is
 

john eden

male pale and stale
"‘Neoliberalism’ and ‘financialisation’ are expressions favoured by opportunists in their efforts to avoid using the word ‘imperialism’. Such terms are at best descriptive, more usually a smokescreen to disguise theoretical barrenness and in the end, a way of smuggling in their support for Keynesian solutions to the crisis which are then described as socialist."
how accurate would u say this is

Not very? Neoliberalism is a form of capitalism.

Imperialism is a tool capitalism uses to try to resolve its inherent tendency towards crisis.

I think maybe underneath that there is a reasonable criticism of people who think that “good capitalism” is when people make things and “bad capitalism” is speculation.
 

Numbers

Well-known member
[QUOTE="Google Translate]Does capitalism make few rich and many poor - or increasingly less and less poor?

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Not only since the financial crisis has it again become customary to blame capitalism for almost all the evils of the world. The renowned economic historian Werner Plumpe contrasts this with the history of capitalism, which shows how many problems the capitalist market economy has solved - and only these. For "capitalism" is not a system, but a kind of economy in which consumption takes centre stage - namely the consumption of the less wealthy people who for centuries were left to their fate. This is the only way to achieve economically successful mass production. This soon attracted criticism, but Plumpe shows how the capitalist way of doing business has reacted to it, how it changes again and again.

Capitalism is successful like few other ideas, and we cannot escape it, not even in refusal. It is neither based on an evil core nor is it the sum of unpopular side effects of our social system. Plumpe shows capitalism as a perpetual revolution - as a movement of constant innovation and novelty as good or bad as we shape it. Capitalism is and has always been what we make of it..[/QUOTE]


This book came out recently. I plan on buying it; the perspective is rather interesting.
 
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