Jeremy Corbyn

DannyL

Wild Horses
Luka: Could you explain what's in Tea's last post that isn't true? Maybe you have an opinion yourself? This is the bit you normally go "I'm not an expert mate" and go back to dredging up old posts or whatever.

Droid: What been happening in Gaza is obviously horrific and should be condemned unequivocally, yesterday's events seem like a culmination. But Corbyn's outrage is selective and based on ideological partisanship, rather than say, a respect for universal human rights.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
youve just set yourself up for the kicking of your life there tea.

what amazes me i that it was only a week or two ago that droid showed you how out of your depth you are.
you ran off with your tail between your legs, and now you're back, throwing stones again.... mad

Utter nonsense. It was droid who not long ago approvingly posted an article by Robert Fisk - the man being toured around regime-held areas of Syria by regime goons, who then can't find anyone with a bad word to say about the regime, funnily enough - and who then starts spouting off about "sane media". What a shitshow.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Mr. Tea
Mr. Tea is online now Shub-Niggurath, Please

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Well Israel is saying Iran shot first: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...heights-israel

At any rates, some missiles from Syria hit Israeli positions in the Golan Heights and Israel thinks they came from Iranian units.

Obviously I don't have the same highly-placed IDF sources that droid apparently has, so you will notice I didn't make any categorical claim about what had happened (unlike droid, again, with his crystal ball).

So maybe butt out before you make yourself look any more foolish.
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
Remarkable isn't it. Magical Grandpa swings into action. Why is this different from Ukraine, Venezuela, Iran, Syria? Where we have to "take it slowly, let's assess the evidence, no rush to judgement" - It's almost as if his political biases determine the causes he supports, regardless of the bodycount. Elected to sainthood on the basis of selective morality.

don't know that much about ukraine, but for the other countries i would say, because they are not part of imperialist usa? and we know what happens to those countries, they get infiltrated, they get boycotted, they get manipulated, they get bombed, they get threatened, etc.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
A few thousand palestinians among them, too.

Far more than Israel has killed in the same period, in fact.

To be clear, I posted the Corbyn tweet not to exculpate Israel or in any way diminish Israeli atrocities. I'd have thought that was abundantly obvious, but maybe it needs to be spelled out for some people. The point was to show the glaring double standards and general moral vacuity of an "anti-war" left that is extremely fucking selective about which precise wars it is anti, and of which Corbyn is a leading member.

If people are going to use that as a stick to beat him with, then good - he needs beating. I've lost whatever remaining patience I had with him. His cynicism is breathtaking.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
question is, is it cynicism. I rather got the impression he really means it, like most of the worldwide "anti-imperialist" brigades.

"RT more objective than most" - always rings out in my mind when these discussions start.

There's a degree of cynicism or wilful ignorance at least with regards to Syria as he's been regularly harangued by activists for a while now. The only time he spoke out against Russian bombing in Syria was after some Peter Tatchell and some Syria Solidarity UK activists invaded the stage at a speech he was giving (I was meant to be involved in that action but childcare took over). We are wilfully ignorant in our own ways I guess.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I agree with Droid that's it's a bad look to politically point score in wake of a massacre. It's just with Corbyn the contrasts are so vivid - "you couldn't make it up" to coin a phrase. If anyone has a clue about genuinely progressive movements/thinkers/initiatives that might change the situation in Gaza, then hit us up by all means, or post in the relevant thread.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
question is, is it cynicism. I rather got the impression he really means it, like most of the worldwide "anti-imperialist" brigades.

I think it's possible to earnestly believe in something and to be cynical at the same time. He has far more in common with Tony Blair than most people realize.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
From Sam Charles Hamad on Facebook. On excoriating form as usual:
“The Western Palestine Fetish and Phoney Self-Indulgent Outrage Industry will be mobilising in full swing. No, I'm not making light of those martyred today. I've never had anything but support for the cause of Palestinian self-determination and resistance to Israeli state brutality, but it's not me who has to explain myself.

It's the likes of Jeremy Corbyn, and he's the perfect figurehead. He's come out and strongly condemned the murder of Palestinians by Israel, while he could not come out and condemn the murder of Syrians by Assad-Iran-Russia after Ghouta, Khan Shaykhun or Douma. Following Douma and Khan Shaykhun, he called for an inquiry to see who *really* did it, while, for the latter, he ignored the huge catalogue of evidence demonstrating it was Assad and posited that it might've been a Syrian rebel group. Where was his statement when the Palestinian refugee area of Yarmouk was starved, bombarded, destroyed and cleansed by Assad, Iran and Russia?
So, yes, no matter how much this person might be outraged at the slaughter of Palestinians by Israel, it is PHONEY. I'll say it again - the anti-apartheid movement was never opposing apartheid in South Africa while supporting, denying or justifying much worse apartheid elsewhere. So it ought to be met with despise and even ridicule. It ought to be sneered at. And the same goes for all the people you know who are as bad if not worse than apologists for Israel (Israel, in that region, is no supreme evil - not even close) when it comes to apologising for Assad-Iran-Russia's genocide in Syria.
You'll get all the theatrics - you'll get the marches, the sloganeering, the podiums, the phoney mourning by people who have no organic link to this particular situation. Including governments. Like the Iranian regime has ever done anything of note against the great 'Zionist Entity'. It has expended more resoruces butchering more Arab than Israel could ever hope to in Syria. This is the evil that lies at the heart of the fetish.
Never confuse victims for those vultures, those ravening wolves who are actually excited every time a Palestinian is killed by Israel, who exploit the victims for their own sordid, self-indulgent ends. They need Israel to kill Palestinians. They want it so very badly. It gives their hollow lives, saturated with privilege, meaning. It gives them opportunities. It makes their dead, soulless form sparkle. This is vicious reality of 'politics'. But they're a huge hindrance to the movement for justice - in a wider and direct sense.
Every sleazy propagandist for Israel loves the pro-Assad movement and its cross-over with Palestinian solidarity - they think these people have been sent from The Almighty Lord Above.
Every time Israel murders Palestinians and the inevitable clashes happen within the discourse, they'll be faced with the Corbyns, Blumenthals, Khaleks, Finkelsteins et al, and numerous other ones parasiting in academia and the media (there's thousands of them), and the first thing they'll say is 'it's interesting that you only choose to care about dead Arabs when the Jews are killing them' - guess what, THEY'RE RIGHT. They don't just have a point. They are now, despite their own motivations, 100% correct.”
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I think the main difference between Israel and Syria is that escalating the situation in Syria seems far more likely to trigger world war 3.

Whereas condemning Israel for shooting Palestinians is regrettably just part of the global background noise.
 

droid

Well-known member
Assad and friends kill 500,000, displace 12,000,000: "We must seek a diplomatic solution through the UN" (i.e. do nothing)

Israel kills 60: "COMRADES, TO ARMS!!!"

There's much to unpack here, but just to take one example. Estimates vary between about 350,000-498,000 deaths as a result of the war, but regardless, the glib claim that 'Assad and his friends 'killed' them all is indicative of the level of debate here. No matter how you swing it, approximately 1/3 or 120,000 are pro government forces killed by rebels. Of the approx 125,000 anti government forces killed, around 25,000 of them were ISIS fighters.

It's fair to say that 'Assad & friends' are primarily responsible for the deaths of about 100,000 civilians, and also bears responsibility for flagrant violations of international humanitarian law, breaches of various arms treaties & war crimes, but I guess that level of accuracy doesnt convey the level of spittle spraying indignant rage you were going for.

Utter nonsense. It was droid who not long ago approvingly posted an article by Robert Fisk - the man being toured around regime-held areas of Syria by regime goons, who then can't find anyone with a bad word to say about the regime, funnily enough - and who then starts spouting off about "sane media". What a shitshow.

I have asked on numerous occasions in the past that you stop misrepresenting both myself and others, and yet, here we are again. This is what I said about the Fisk article.

Interesting article from Fisk, who may of course be wrong, but I think has always reported with integrity.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8307726.html

...

His cynicism is breathtaking.

lol
 

droid

Well-known member
I think the main difference between Israel and Syria is that escalating the situation in Syria seems far more likely to trigger world war 3.

Whereas condemning Israel for shooting Palestinians is regrettably just part of the global background noise.

That's one but there are other major differences.

  • Israel is an ally of the West and receives major political, military and economic support from Western nations.
  • The situation is Palestine is not a war, its an occupation, and as such there is far more transparency and a surfeit of documentation and evidence regarding events.
  • There has been a solution on the table since 1979, endorsed by the UN and accepted by the PLO, Fatah, (latterly Hamas), Arab nations & about 97% of the world.
 

droid

Well-known member
From Sam Charles Hamad on Facebook. On excoriating form as usual:
“The Western Palestine Fetish and Phoney Self-Indulgent Outrage Industry will be mobilising in full swing. No, I'm not making light of those martyred today. I've never had anything but support for the cause of Palestinian self-determination and resistance to Israeli state brutality, but it's not me who has to explain myself.

It's the likes of Jeremy Corbyn, and he's the perfect figurehead. He's come out and strongly condemned the murder of Palestinians by Israel, while he could not come out and condemn the murder of Syrians by Assad-Iran-Russia after Ghouta, Khan Shaykhun or Douma. Following Douma and Khan Shaykhun, he called for an inquiry to see who *really* did it, while, for the latter, he ignored the huge catalogue of evidence demonstrating it was Assad and posited that it might've been a Syrian rebel group. Where was his statement when the Palestinian refugee area of Yarmouk was starved, bombarded, destroyed and cleansed by Assad, Iran and Russia?
So, yes, no matter how much this person might be outraged at the slaughter of Palestinians by Israel, it is PHONEY. I'll say it again - the anti-apartheid movement was never opposing apartheid in South Africa while supporting, denying or justifying much worse apartheid elsewhere. So it ought to be met with despise and even ridicule. It ought to be sneered at. And the same goes for all the people you know who are as bad if not worse than apologists for Israel (Israel, in that region, is no supreme evil - not even close) when it comes to apologising for Assad-Iran-Russia's genocide in Syria.
You'll get all the theatrics - you'll get the marches, the sloganeering, the podiums, the phoney mourning by people who have no organic link to this particular situation. Including governments. Like the Iranian regime has ever done anything of note against the great 'Zionist Entity'. It has expended more resoruces butchering more Arab than Israel could ever hope to in Syria. This is the evil that lies at the heart of the fetish.
Never confuse victims for those vultures, those ravening wolves who are actually excited every time a Palestinian is killed by Israel, who exploit the victims for their own sordid, self-indulgent ends. They need Israel to kill Palestinians. They want it so very badly. It gives their hollow lives, saturated with privilege, meaning. It gives them opportunities. It makes their dead, soulless form sparkle. This is vicious reality of 'politics'. But they're a huge hindrance to the movement for justice - in a wider and direct sense.
Every sleazy propagandist for Israel loves the pro-Assad movement and its cross-over with Palestinian solidarity - they think these people have been sent from The Almighty Lord Above.
Every time Israel murders Palestinians and the inevitable clashes happen within the discourse, they'll be faced with the Corbyns, Blumenthals, Khaleks, Finkelsteins et al, and numerous other ones parasiting in academia and the media (there's thousands of them), and the first thing they'll say is 'it's interesting that you only choose to care about dead Arabs when the Jews are killing them' - guess what, THEY'RE RIGHT. They don't just have a point. They are now, despite their own motivations, 100% correct.”

Danny, that is a absolutely despicable piece of work. You should be running a mile from this kind of stuff

To take one example. Norman Finkelstein, both of his parents survivors of concentration camps, endangered his academic career exposing myths and lies about Israel and eventually lost his job because of a campaign by right wing zionists. Extremely critical of Israel with measured, evidence based writing brimming with integrity and is now banned from Israel for his work and regularly receives death threats and accusations of anti-semitism.

Youre endorsing the idea that this is a fetish for him? That he 'loves it' when Palestinians are killed? That he has 'no organic link' to the situation? That he's a 'media-parasite'?

You need to take a look at this kind of thinking and where it leads, this can be flipped all kinds of ways.

What about the obsession with the crimes of official enemies? What's with the Syria-fetish when the situation in Yemen killed 50,000 children last year through starvation and disease and is expected to kill half a million this year? The phoney mourning over Douma but utter silence over the Rohingya genocide...

...and I could go on like this, but I wont.

Because its repulsive.
 
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