droid

Well-known member
Its really awful when people (wilfully or otherwise) misinterpret things you've made an effort to be clear about isnt it? ❌
 

luka

Well-known member
A fascinating article today entitled "Untimely Deaths in Ukraine", disputing the official explanations of "strange suicides and car crashes" in the Ukraine.

Get a load of this, and from the Los Angeles Times, no less:

The former Ukrainian interior minister, scheduled to meet in just a few hours with prosecutors to give testimony in a high-profile case of political murder, aimed a gun at his chin and fired, sending a bullet ripping through his cheek and out his upper jaw. Then he aimed it at his temple and fired again.

Suicide, government investigators ruled.
...
Zvarych, the justice minister, has expressed doubt that the former interior minister could have recovered sufficiently from the shock of the first wound to have delivered the second.

"I have certain doubts personally speaking about whether someone can pull the trigger twice in order to commit suicide," he said. "There's this threshold of pain, I think, that one would need to be able to cross in order to be able to do that, something called a 'pain syndrome,' that I think is very difficult to overcome.

Consider that Gary Webb - "the last North American career journalist," in Al Giordano's words - was also judged to have killed himself with two gunshots to the head. Consider the mainstream media was as incurious about the circumstances of his death as it had disgraced itself regarding the substance of his investigations. And consider it was the LA Times which played the point in Webb's character assassination, even in his obituary.

My purpose isn't to rehash speculation about Webb's death, but to underscore the selective speculation of the American press.

Imagine if, in the space of five years, figures of the stature of John F Kennedy, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr and Robert F Kennedy had been murdered anywhere else in the world.

Imagine if finely-milled anthrax had been mailed to the opponents of Hugo Chavez, just as his government introduced "El Acto Del Patriota," which promised to consolidate power in the presidency and violate the spirit and letter of the Venezuelan constitution. And imagine if the investigation led to a bioweapons lab of the Venezuelan military, and then faltered.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.co.uk/2005/03/conspiracy-theory-made-easy.html
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I can't help feeling sad that Zhao isn't around for this thread.

@Tea, you can't separate someone's attitude towards a system of knowledge from racial and other politics though, when that system of knowledge has been (and continues to be) used for oppressive purposes, alongside all the good uses to which it is put. They're inseparable, and the lack of acknowledgement of this point is, as I take it, precisely what the woman in the video is trying to bring some attention to in terms of decolonising science - much as I don't think she chooses the most helpful example.

I don't think we have to be literal in thinking that she really means to scrap all science. Rather, it's a rhetorical way of drawing attention to several things, among those the often-contemptuous attitude of the West towards other forms of knowledge - you show contempt for our ancestral knowledge, and we'll show contempt for yours. I don't think she makes the point particularly well, but that doesn't mean it's ridiculous.
 

sufi

lala
I made it quite clear in my original post that I was talking about people's attitudes to science, rather than the specifics of the racial politics in each case.
Oh I see now,
So you decided to post up the 2 videos about racism and science, but you decided to just skip the race bit.

Cool:cool:
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Sufi, I've replied in a different thread to keep this one from getting derailed any further.

The gist is, I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I've misrepresented the student's words, and that anyone who is serious about reducing racial inequality in the scientific establishment, or generally for that matter, should be aghast at this rather than defending it.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
As a counterfactual: sufi and baboon, what would your reaction be to a white guy from, say, Norway claiming that he could strike someone dead by carving runes on a stick and burying it? I mean, would you have a reaction other than "lol, who is this attention-seeking dickhead" or "poor man, I hope he gets the help he clearly needs"?

Yes, I know white Norwegians are not oppressed victims of colonialism, obviously. That's not the point. Now, what about that stick?
 

luka

Well-known member
As a counterfactual: sufi and baboon, what would your reaction be to a white guy from, say, Norway claiming that he could strike someone dead by carving runes on a stick and burying it? I mean, would you have a reaction other than "lol, who is this attention-seeking dickhead" or "poor man, I hope he gets the help he clearly needs"?

Yes, I know white Norwegians are not oppressed victims of colonialism, obviously. That's not the point. Now, what about that stick?

at least two white men on this forum were/are practicing magicians
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
But that IS the point, near enough. I can only repeat what I said above. Context is everything when seeking to understand what someone says, and what layers of meaning it might contain. Literal meaning is far from the only truth.

This is far from an equivalent example, but it's the best I can come up with for now that isn't also to do with Western imperialism: I have met lots of people who grew up in the ex-Soviet Union or its satellite states, who completely rubbish socialism in all its forms as a ridiculous idea. I don't take this as (necessarily) meaning that they actually think socialism is total shit (and in fact when talking to many of those people, it is clear that their ideas are very left-wing), but that their lives and those of their families were affected horribly by other people's destructive usages of the concepts of socialism and communism. Political and pragmatic attitudes diverge.
 
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luka

Well-known member
this is alex jones
In 1999 I traveled to Oakland California to cover the Marine Corps execution of Operation Urban Warrior. Thousands of Marines opnely trained to biometrically scan American citizens, seperate the men, women and children in a concentration camp environment, and conduct interrogations. Video in my film, Police State 2000 shows Marine Corps officers questioning role-players who were posing as American resistance fighters. Loudspeakers informed the population of the mock camp filled with hundreds of role-players, that if they tried to escape or resist they would be killed.

Now the public consciousness is so seared that an NBC reporter can just nonchalantly talk about an instant death penalty for anyone that doesn't have their biometric card in order or that strays off pre-determined paths on their way to authorized destinations. The Nazis did the same thing in the Polish ghettos. This is total seige, it is the highest expression of pure martial law. ID cards are now being issued across Iraq, the entire country and its 23 million inhabitants are simply being straight-jacketed so the Globalists can continue the oldest form of total war - seige - upon them.

there's a book, by an academic, not alex jones, called cities under siege
https://libcom.org/files/Graham, Stephen - Cities Under Siege. The New Military Urbanism_0.pdf
i recommend it. it talks about how palestine and fallujah were used as laboratories for new military and surveillance tech and tactics. the author was then blasted with mind control rays which made him scratch 'pointless' into the paintwork of other peoples mercedes
 

sufi

lala
As a counterfactual: sufi and baboon, what would your reaction be to a white guy from, say, Norway claiming that he could strike someone dead by carving runes on a stick and burying it? I mean, would you have a reaction other than "lol, who is this attention-seeking dickhead" or "poor man, I hope he gets the help he clearly needs"?

Yes, I know white Norwegians are not oppressed victims of colonialism, obviously. That's not the point. Now, what about that stick?
you missed the point again, whilst being patronising and talking down mentalists and wiccans
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Let's cut to the chase. Do you think magic is real?

And more to the point: do you think magic, whether it's real or not, is useful to improving the opportunities of poor and marginalised people?

Do you think Chinese universities are teaching their students that "science is racist" and that it must be "decolonised"? I suspect they're probably too busy churning out thousands of highly qualified scientists, engineers, doctors, programmers and analysts every year, which is part of the reason they're leaving 'us' in the dust.
 

droid

Well-known member
Depends how you define magic. The world abounds with examples of people who have used words and ideas to materially change the conditions of peoples lives.
 

droid

Well-known member
this is alex jones


there's a book, by an academic, not alex jones, called cities under siege
https://libcom.org/files/Graham, Stephen - Cities Under Siege. The New Military Urbanism_0.pdf
i recommend it. it talks about how palestine and fallujah were used as laboratories for new military and surveillance tech and tactics. the author was then blasted with mind control rays which made him scratch 'pointless' into the paintwork of other peoples mercedes

The first bit is demonstrably true (and mundane). In fact there was a an incident around Falluja when a bus full of people was melted and it was claimed to be the testing of a new weapon - the US military just declassified a new anti drone microwave weapon that would have precisely the kind of effects witnessed at the time.
 

droid

Well-known member
Its mundane because it happens everytime. Militaries use captive populations to experiment with weapons & tactics as a matter of course. From Northern Ireland to Algeria to Iraq.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Depends how you define magic. The world abounds with examples of people who have used words and ideas to materially change the conditions of peoples lives.

That's not quite the same thing as blasting your foes with lightning bolts though, is it. Or even melting them with microwave weapons.
 
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