The Event : How Racist Are You?

sufi

lala
Amusingly, this was on the Metro's front page this morning:
it's amazing how the media consistently misrepresents discrimination as "colour-blind" or "even-handed" somehow, instead of portraying anything like the proportions of discrimination actually suffered by different groups,
well, amazing in one way, but also depressingly obvious, it's ALL about power innit

sadly prosecutions under a lot of the anti-discrimination legislation have also gone the same way
 

vimothy

yurp
Yes, I felt that the urge for even-handedness came through on the sections of "The Event" that I managed to see. I think that the identification of white participants with the victims of racism mitigated against the success of the experiment and is probably the signal difference between today and 1960s America.

EDIT: Although obviously this in itself is hardly an unalloyed evil...
 
Last edited:

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
BNP leader Nick Griffin 'racially abused by passer by'

British National Party leader Nick Griffin was racially abused by a man who made threatening "gun gestures" towards him, a court heard today.

The North West MEP was giving evidence in the trial of 23-year-old Tauriq Khalid, from Burnley, who is accused of shouting "white bastards" towards Griffin and other BNP members who were demonstrating in the Lancashire town.

Well Griffin is definitely both white and a bastard. That's hardly racial abuse, it's just a statement of commonly-known fact.
 
Last edited:

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Some people seem to have misunderstood what I tried to point out - probably because I worded it pretty badly; but I wasn't disagreeing with the gist of the experiment - or that white people are racist...that we exist within a racist social structure in the UK. That is obvious.

BUT, and this is the but - I simply didn't think it right to summarise by focusing entirely on white racism no matter how terrible the crimes of history. There are racist factions of other ethnic groups in the UK, that is just a sad fact - it isn't ammunition for the BNP. My throwaway example of Asian gangs (which I have experienced and do exist) was probably a bit sensationalist... they certainly aren't rampaging across the country - nor did I say all Asian youths, I was just trying to highlight other groups that are part of the UK. It isn't all skinheads and English Defence League.

It's not ok to make the statement 'all white people are racist' in my book - that is a racist statement in and of itself. If you want to deal with racism - deal with all racism as a human condition and break down social boundaries on all sides. Yes elements of Asian youth may be disaffected because of their poor treatment by the white mainstream but that still doesn't justify a racist reaction as an outlet for that. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that jazz.

Sorry, may have come across too forcefully - I think Dissensus is bringing out all too aggressive impulses in me in recent weeks (no idea which threads i might have caught that tendency from! ahem).

You're right of course - racism can work in all ways, but is stronger the more levels on which the aggressing party holds power. I would say though that the way in which society, the media etc work (in terms of imagery that is taken in semi-consciously especially) means that barely anyone is free of some racialised (rather than racist) preconceptions.

But I def think there needs to be more focus on the issues brought up by that show. And there needs to be an equivalent focus on how deeply class issues cut through the UK (esp on the 'unseen', structural level in both cases). And an appreciation of 'stigma' in general and the ways in which power works to enforce this.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
it's amazing how the media consistently misrepresents discrimination as "colour-blind" or "even-handed" somehow, instead of portraying anything like the proportions of discrimination actually suffered by different groups,
well, amazing in one way, but also depressingly obvious, it's ALL about power innit

sadly prosecutions under a lot of the anti-discrimination legislation have also gone the same way

and as for getting allegations of insitutional racism off the ground....that whole necessity for a 'comparator' makes it hugely unlikely, sadly.
 

grizzleb

Well-known member
?

When people say that things have changed so drastically that this exercise doesn't apply anymore, I wonder what world they're living in. What kind of tenuous thread connects them to reality, as Baboon put it.

There's all kinds of data on this stuff.

Black people are still discriminated against. Latinos are still discriminated against. Middle Easterners are still discriminated against. Women are still discriminated against.
Nah, I've revised my thoughts and put my dislike of it down to squeamishness more than anything else. I think it probably could have been done better too - but the basic concept is ok. My cough was just pointing out I'd already said what andy did...Pettiness styles.
 

Dusty

Tone deaf
Dusty, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that experiment is meant to focus on "white" racism. It's just meant to focus on racism, which happens to be against certain racial minorities more often than others.

Yeah, quite frankly I think I'm being a bit of a twat about it. I was just riled by the experimenters defiant response to Krishnans question - to my ears it sent out the wrong message.
 

grizzleb

Well-known member
And also - you can't say people are racist simply because they don't sit down and take it when they get verbally abused *yeah yeah i know. Surely it's in everyones nature to feel angry when they are picked on for no reason, even if they formulate their response in a way that's a little silly. Also the other groups readiness to jump in against them shows that it's something common to everyone, a willingness to put down other people if you think it's for the right reasons...I always thought the points of these things were to show both groups the arbitrary and conditioned nature of it, rather than pick on one group to 'enlighten' them.
 

vimothy

yurp
It's would also be wrong for the audience to sit in safety and say, "well, they wouldn't stick it, must be because they're unenlightened racists..."
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
True, but (and it's hard to know what was edited, of course) when some of the people in that group said absurd things, no-one in their own group seemed to speak up and tell them to stop being a twat. As I say, this could have been edited, so hard to tell if this is a fair reflection.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I just read this and realised that AM's Londonstani was the journalist cum non-English speaking immmigrant in the documentary I saw on racism... Balls of steel, that man.

Pretty depressing article, especially the first half. Balls of steel, as you say.

Some real dicks in the comments section - including several requests for photos of jailbait chav boob action. Makes you proud to be a Westerner. GO TEAM USA!!!
 

humann

custom user title
How racist am I? When did you stop beating your wife?

Seems a rather childish simplification to me. I can't see how you overcome racial tension by labelling the white man the racist problem.

Oh yes, it's a complete mystery why we'd do that, given the hundreds of years of slavery, oppression, imperialism, and colonialism much of the world endured at the hands of white Europeans.

Dusty makes a valid point I think and the sarcastic reply isn't much of a response from where I'm sitting.

What's interesting to me is that slavery, oppression, imperialism and colonialism are all still being practiced in some form now. If you want to argue that those crimes are or were only done by whites against non-whites then you need to look more closely at both history and current events. Those in power believe that they deserve it no matter their race. Just as they believe the powerless deserve their lot regardless of their race. Egalitarianism is a very recent development and I suspect it's always going to have to struggle with our greedy primitive psyches.

I regularly deal with the racism of both whites and non-whites here in urban Los Angeles but I try not to let it bother me. I try to explain it to my white-looking half-latina daughter when non-white kids are racially cruel to her as kids often are to minority children on the playground. I tell her the race thing is just another way that mean people can be mean. And that mean people sometimes regret being mean and change their attitudes.

I'm honestly tired of the holistic-racism idea that because racism is inescapable it automatically confers benefits on whites while hurting non-whites. That's just nonsense in my white-minority world here. You can't say that personal responsibility is the greatest factor in non-white successes and that institutional racism is the greatest in non-white failures. It really starts to fall apart when you have to reverse the equation for whites. The widely-subscribed-to idea that both ancestral victimhood and oppressor status are inherited neatly ignores the reality of our mutual heritage. That we all came from Africa in the distant past but for example, my European ancestors came to America during the civil rights movement and participated in it. So I'm not a part of the problem and never have been. I've had plenty of non-white people accuse me of racism the instant we came into conflict over something completely non-racial in nature. It's so very convenient. The irony is they're the ones with the slaveholder or conquistador blood in them from centuries of race-mixing. And race-mixing is probably our best long-term hope as the nasty killer apes we are. Everybody get busy.

I didn't see the TV show in question but it sounds like a particularly poorly-executed version of an old experiment I am familiar with. A bit like a mini Stanford prison experiment based on race more than authority. But the element of authority is still present in that the leader encourages one group to treat the other badly. Actually without that being enforced by the rules there is no experiment. Stanley Milgram proved that most of us do what we're told to do. If that's not going to change then we need to make sure that those doing the telling are saying to do good things to eachother.
 
Top