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Thread: Tory bastards

  1. #196

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    Seems like Scottish conservatives do exist, as I said.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    Seems like Scottish conservatives do exist, as I said.
    Looks like it! I don't think I ever said they 'don't exist', but last year the Tories got 15% of the popular vote there vs. 41% in England, which is a pretty dramatic difference. And I surely don't need to point out that council elections are a different kettle of fish from generals elections.
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  3. #198

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    Yes, I'm not going to argue about electoral numbers. My argument was always about the fallacy that Scots are inherently left-wing, as evidenced by historical Labour (industry) or SNP (nationalist) strangleholds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    Seems like Scottish conservatives do exist, as I said.
    scottish independence is a fundamentally right-wing movement - just one which has a misleading socialist wrapper at the moment.

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    That's an interesting opinion. I'd love to hear more if you'd care to elaborate

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woebot View Post
    scottish independence is a fundamentally right-wing movement - just one which has a misleading socialist wrapper at the moment.
    Aww c'mon, there's no reason you can't be both a nationalist and a socialist. Hell, you could even call yourself a 'national-socialist'! I think it has quite a nice ring to it, actually.
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  7. #202

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    I'm not unsympathetic to Matt's view, as anybody could guess, but don't know enough about the origins of the SNP to back it up. There's certainly an element of that with Plaid, and Lianne Wood (who I like, but consider an ambitious Labour apostate rather than a real nationalist) is certainly deploying the populist Salmond template.

    But these are essentially nationalist parties and can contain a broad coalition of left and right in their body. There are many Plaid members who distrust Lianne's left agenda and don't like the fact that they have a non-Welsh speaking leader - what is Welsh nationalism about other than language rights? There are even some fringe Welsh nationalists who would consider defecting to UKIP, which is hilarious.

    Of all the parties, apart from the fascists and racists and some of the more extreme Communist and Trot sects, I like the nationalists the least.

  8. #203

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    In Wales we all tend to shorten the title Plaid Cymru to Plaid, which they love because it means 'The Party'.

    Sinister fuckers.

  9. #204
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    But let's get down to the real question: will the SNP ever be run by someone who isn't named after a fish? I mean, is it even allowed?
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  10. #205
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    Health spending per age group:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...spent-over-65s

    % of over 65ís:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...960&view=chart

    Tory's came to power in 2010

    Healthcare spending per capita:

    http://www.economicshelp.org/wp-cont...per-capita.png

    Healthcare spending % of GDP:

    http://www.economicshelp.org/wp-cont...ercent-gdp.png

    It's been suggested that cuts to NHS have resulted in a rise in mortality:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7585001.html

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    It's been suggested that cuts to NHS have resulted in a rise in mortality:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7585001.html
    I think I read somewhere that an estimated 40,000 excess deaths have happened since 2010 as a result of austerity (NHS, benefits, everything). I'll see if I can find a source for it.
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  13. #208
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    Why wasn't the Remain campaign shouting this from the rooftops? It's probably the best pro-immigration argument there is, at least in terms of immigration from the EU. Without immigrants both to fund the NHS and staff it, the system's at risk of collapse under the weight of bed-bound biddies.
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  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Why wasn't the Remain campaign shouting this from the rooftops? It's probably the best pro-immigration argument there is, at least in terms of immigration from the EU. Without immigrants both to fund the NHS and staff it, the system's at risk of collapse under the weight of bed-bound biddies.
    Cameron and Osborne couldn't say "immigration's not the problem, austerity is" because they were responsible for austerity. Corbyn, whether out of Bennite euroscepticism or incompetence, wasn't willing or able to pick up the slack.

  15. #210
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    I meant the Labour side of the campaign, yes - such as it was - plus whatever centrist Tories may have had the balls to put pressure on the government from the left/centre in the same way the party's lunatic fringe did from the right.
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