i wish there was a proper anti futuregarage/faux-dubtechno/twinklestep movement but the music's a bit too polite to elicit such a reaction, isn't it? there's also the sentiment that "it's the best we've got at the moment" and "hey, at least it's not brostep".
rolling back to the future garage/post-dubstep/alt-funkstep/intelli-2step etc thread
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- air your grievances here! beardstep feminist sausagefest garage conversion i am a defender of simon reynolds' face i am skrillex insidious gentrification muppet show gallery post joe muggs' post pubstep time travel too many man transvestite vocals well i think it's still interesting wot do u call it uurrrban
i wish there was a proper anti futuregarage/faux-dubtechno/twinklestep movement but the music's a bit too polite to elicit such a reaction, isn't it? there's also the sentiment that "it's the best we've got at the moment" and "hey, at least it's not brostep".
lol, I also remember dubstep frequently referred to by grime fans as "music for crackheads"
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
It's interesting that dubstep was the genre that aimed to swing the emphasis in dance music away from sonic excess and now the stuff that has sprung out of it is often so mid-rangey, melodic/harmonic, full of crazy synths and sound fx etc. Even 'Work Them' by Pearson Sound, though a very bassy track and very sparse, is somewhat maximal (as juke - one of its main influences - is) in its use of beats and vocal snippets. Mind you the same can probably be said for a lot of classic dubstep so perhaps I'm on shaky ground. Besides, I wonder if this is more a consequence (aside from dubstep opening up to other influences) of the demands of the mainstream rather than the demands of the underground audience - mid-rangey tracks with strong vocal/melodic hooks translate better to commercial radio, music tv, bigger arenas and general taste. It's arguable that dubstep didn't really blow up on its own terms, but I suppose it depends what you view those 'terms' to be.
Interesting that thing about it being grime for pussies - personally don't agree but I can see how it could be seen that way (i.e. Skream intending 'Midnight Request Line' to be a grime tune originally, and then it getting picked up by Skepta et al). Obviously grime was hugely influential on dubstep, I think it was a distinct genre though. I suppose you could say that making a grime-like genre with little/no emphasis on MCing, or on upbeat, explosive rhythms and in-yer-face melodies = blanding grime out. But I think the two genres offer distinct and different immersive potential and focused energy.
I suppose many of the grime heads who now have time for dubstep prefer the chainsaw-wobble tunes to Mala/Loefah etc. ?
Interesting that thing about it being grime for pussies - personally don't agree but I can see how it could be seen that way (i.e. Skream intending 'Midnight Request Line' to be a grime tune originally, and then it getting picked up by Skepta et al). Obviously grime was hugely influential on dubstep, I think it was a distinct genre though. I suppose you could say that making a grime-like genre with little/no emphasis on MCing, or on upbeat, explosive rhythms and in-yer-face melodies = blanding grime out. But I think the two genres offer distinct and different immersive potential and focused energy.
I suppose many of the grime heads who now have time for dubstep prefer the chainsaw-wobble tunes to Mala/Loefah etc. ?
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FairiesWearBoots
Well-known member
I think it was an energy thing too, as so much of the sound blended between the 2 scenes
grime was hype and punk as fuck and dubstep was 'meditating on bass weight'
grime was hype and punk as fuck and dubstep was 'meditating on bass weight'
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Yeah, I think that dubstep (circa 2005-2006, at least) was a lot more than watered down grime. The energy that it had was (both at the time and to an extent historically) fairly unique and radical - the idea of a music that was communal and dancefloor-centred and celebratory at the same time as being glacially slow and sparse and moody and introspective was really quite exciting. Arguably it was a lot more radical and exciting than a lot of the more rhythmically propulsive post-dubstep stuff, which is often great music but is partly covering old ground in terms of the vibe even though it's doing new stuff in terms of the actual configuration of the music.
Reynold's writing about this: http://blissout.blogspot.com/2011/03/stirrings-of-backlash-against-nu-e-c.html
has nice amount of quotes from this thread, even one of mine!
has nice amount of quotes from this thread, even one of mine!
grime and dubstep had loads in common but dubstep was basically like dad-garage/jungle. so you still had things like bass weight, but instead of getting you hype, it was there for you to 'meditate' on. pretty new agey (funny, and this might just be me, but for all the weight, i cant think of many great dubstep basslines, though thats also just cos no one does basslines much anymore). to me dubstep was always trying to show how deep and grown up it was (even loefah still talks about putting out stuff that isnt 'just for kids'). its pretty precious, po-faced, self-serious. obv grime was also serious, but in a diff way, more obsessed with proving how 'real' it was. but even when the mcs were ott, the beats didnt have dubsteps self consciousness. dubstep it seemed to be about trying to sort of dub/space/chill out uk dance music, basically make dance music without danceability (grime was still dancey, or energetic at least, imo), cos you know, dancing is silly (though ok, grime didnt exactly want people to dance either, cos it wanted to be listened to properly), and dance music gets dated, and dubstep guys aim for timelessness and warmth and musicality etc etc. the best dubstep imo was the stuff that didnt aim for naturalism and was happy just to be punishing, cold, heavy, etc (though not necess in the vex'd sort of vein). grime basically wanted to be appreciated like hip hop, dubstep basically wanted to be appreciated like dub.
all the emo shit in post dubstep where producers talk about wanting to make you bawl your eyes out on the dancefloor (or whatever), that was already there in old dubstep, its just that where before it was more meditative, now it goes a bit overkill with it. theyve teased that one idea/theme out a bit too much. and it sounds a bit silly (same way as when grime mcs try too hard to show their vulnerable side). i read one thing where ikonika talked about madonnas into the groove and how it was danceable but still had emotion which is right but most of this lot only seem to think 'emotion' as meaning 'sadness' whereas something like into the groove had shades of sadness, but also a lot of longing, sexiness, and yearning along with it. they should perhaps just have a good cry before they turn their macs on so they can get it out their system.
all the emo shit in post dubstep where producers talk about wanting to make you bawl your eyes out on the dancefloor (or whatever), that was already there in old dubstep, its just that where before it was more meditative, now it goes a bit overkill with it. theyve teased that one idea/theme out a bit too much. and it sounds a bit silly (same way as when grime mcs try too hard to show their vulnerable side). i read one thing where ikonika talked about madonnas into the groove and how it was danceable but still had emotion which is right but most of this lot only seem to think 'emotion' as meaning 'sadness' whereas something like into the groove had shades of sadness, but also a lot of longing, sexiness, and yearning along with it. they should perhaps just have a good cry before they turn their macs on so they can get it out their system.
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this is the kind of bullshit written by people who read critiques instead of going to clubs. yes, halfstep was introspective, but if the kind of meditation you do also involves a sense of dread, foreboding and the very real concern that your chest cavity is going to cave in, then you know some next new age types. and for every 'meditate' tune in that era there was a euphoric release tune, either coki/skream jump up or mala percussion...
Agreed. I never saw dubstep as "new age" at all. It was much too angular and dark, and had this kind of paranoid tension, like the kind you get when you walk at night through a neighbourhood you aren't familiar with. The "meditate" part seemed to me to just come from the physical experience of listening to dubstep in a club - the way the bass pressure affected your body. The attraction wasn't anything particularly spiritual, and I don't think the music was being made from any real kinds of sophisticated pretensions (not, at least, anywhere close to the kinds of pretensions you find now). All in all, it was just rave music.
The one thing I got tired of hearing music critics say was that you couldn't dance to it. That was definitely proof they'd never been to a club night. It was a challenge at first to figure out how you might move to it, what with all the spaced out percussion, but then something like "Haunted" would drop, and the question would be answered pretty fucking quickly.
Sectionfive
bandwagon house
Anybody who was ever at a dubstep night from the start playing the early set, promoting or whatever can attest that
there were always people who didn't have clue what to do for a while but they always went home with a few new moves.
Firstly, I think the BPM is a great host especially on holdboxflat. The MC on Pinch's boiler room set though is really annoying!
With regards to Dubstep or to be more specific Half-step, it was at it's most effective when it operated the middle ground between deep and danceable tracks such as Headhunter's Locus Lotus, Blipstream, Haunted, Jack Sparrow's The Chase, Left Leg Out, Kalawanji etc. however for me it worked so well because DJs didn't resort to ear piercing screeching noises for a change of energy and instead had a wealth of quality deep tracks by people such as pinch and shackleton to draw for.
With regards to the ex-dubstep group of producers some of it is boring as hell some of it I really dig though Footcrab, Claptrap, Boddika's Basement, The Alps, Kingdom's That Mystic EP and Wut in particular are excellent although a few of those are only thinly detached from Dubstep anyway.
With regards to Dubstep or to be more specific Half-step, it was at it's most effective when it operated the middle ground between deep and danceable tracks such as Headhunter's Locus Lotus, Blipstream, Haunted, Jack Sparrow's The Chase, Left Leg Out, Kalawanji etc. however for me it worked so well because DJs didn't resort to ear piercing screeching noises for a change of energy and instead had a wealth of quality deep tracks by people such as pinch and shackleton to draw for.
With regards to the ex-dubstep group of producers some of it is boring as hell some of it I really dig though Footcrab, Claptrap, Boddika's Basement, The Alps, Kingdom's That Mystic EP and Wut in particular are excellent although a few of those are only thinly detached from Dubstep anyway.
lol i have been to dubstep clubs. i didnt say that people stood motionless at fwd in a prayer circle exchanging copies of deepak chopra, but the new age (or perhaps i should just say spiritual) element/aspirations i think has always been there in the music alongside the heaviness. dubstep artists like mala have always had 'higher' ideals, both musically, and in terms of the general 'positive' (has he ever said a bad word about anything/anyone in dubstep?) vibe they want to foster. its never been *just* about being heavy (though the claustrophobic heaviness is exactly what i liked about those old youngsta and kode 9 sets). i think the meditate part comes from the fact the bass is so heavy but rather than designed to make you 'shock out', it sort of absorbs you into it, its scary and weirdly soothing at the same time (well if you like being immersed in bass).
the dad-garage/jungle thing (and some of the other comments) was me being a bit facetious lol, sorry.
the dad-garage/jungle thing (and some of the other comments) was me being a bit facetious lol, sorry.
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outraygeous
Well-known member
I spent most of my time at fwd sitting down on the bin thing by the edge of the dancefloor untill someone came on and played grime.
it was still in the cross over period when i used to go.
it was still in the cross over period when i used to go.
UFO over easy
online mahjong
playing house and garage and dubstep and grime in the space of four hours isn't eclectic, it's obvious. they are not that different. around 20bpm between them and loads of common ground
people are more free to construct their own tastes now than they ever have been - they can use the net and listen to old music on youtube and go on discogs or whatever, or they can listen to radio and be guided by DJs and labels like they could before. do whatever you want.
if you get swamped and overwhelmed by eclecticism it's your own fault. if you want focus, focus your listening habits.
people are more free to construct their own tastes now than they ever have been - they can use the net and listen to old music on youtube and go on discogs or whatever, or they can listen to radio and be guided by DJs and labels like they could before. do whatever you want.
if you get swamped and overwhelmed by eclecticism it's your own fault. if you want focus, focus your listening habits.
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Leo
Well-known member
true...just don't turn into 2ManyDJs. ;-)