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Thread: rolling back to the future garage/post-dubstep/alt-funkstep/intelli-2step etc thread

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bun-u View Post
    I fail to get very excited turgid revivalist garage made by posh boys (the type who hated it first time around)
    Yeah, I hated it when that posh boy Photek started making all those awful jungle records, shocking

  2. #32
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    Finally! Bassjacker's & Apster "Klambu" - I've been trying to find out the name of this track for months now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobretti View Post
    PS: Every proposed genre name in this topic title is ridiculous. In the worst way possible.
    and there i was hoping intelli 2 step would be a whole new reviews page in dj magazine.

    as for posh boys, well its a pretty lucrative (relatively speaking) audience isnt it. not really surprising rinse wants to get some of that lot on board/'join the dots' etc. but its all basically just an outgrowth of dubstep. this stuff is kindaaaaaaa like to funky what dubstep was to grime (so majority black artists/audience for funky, majority white artists/audience for whatever this stuff is), even down to people like oneman saying he sees it as the 'deeper' flip to everything else thats going on. and the 2 steppier future garage stuff IS basically like prog garage or something isnt it? i do like a fair bit of it when i hear it but its usual sort of thing when mainly white artists find an old black music genre (dont get me wrong i think they are doing something a bit diff with it and i prefer that they are but, nonetheless...), and then everyone seems to think its superior to the previous version (not everyone of course, plenty dont and are prob just made more open to old 2step cos of these guys, but i bet a fair amount of the audience for it think like that) made and endorsed mainly by a black audience.

    anyway, do like that new joy orb track with the film sample about work that oneman played the other week. prob wouldnt have remembered it if it wasnt for that sample, but it was quite nice. interesting sample too.
    Last edited by gumdrops; 07-02-2010 at 11:53 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumdrops View Post
    and there i was hoping intelli 2 step would be a whole new reviews page in dj magazine.

    as for posh boys, well its a pretty lucrative (relatively speaking) audience isnt it. not really surprising rinse wants to get some of that lot on board/'join the dots' etc. but its all basically just an outgrowth of dubstep. this stuff is kindaaaaaaa like to funky what dubstep was to grime (so majority black artists/audience for funky, majority white artists/audience for whatever this stuff is), even down to people like oneman saying he sees it as the 'deeper' flip to everything else thats going on. and the 2 steppier future garage stuff IS basically like prog garage or something isnt it? i do like a fair bit of it when i hear it but its usual sort of thing when mainly white artists find an old black music genre (dont get me wrong i think they are doing something a bit diff with it and i prefer that they are but, nonetheless...), and then everyone seems to think its superior to the previous version (not everyone of course, plenty dont and are prob just made more open to old 2step cos of these guys, but i bet a fair amount of the audience for it think like that) made and endorsed mainly by a black audience.

    anyway, do like that new joy orb track with the film sample about work that oneman played the other week. prob wouldnt have remembered it if it wasnt for that sample, but it was quite nice. interesting sample too.
    how much of this rubbish do you actually believe?


    going back to 2 step is kinda problematic, cos its a bit like acid jazz, cos it could be that it's only a certain side of 2-step that gets fetishised to an extent, the beat science without the pop element, without the audience too on the whole, the things that made it actually exciting, it's working in a vaccum, cos garage's time is over and these kinda things never really work out right, they're always problematic, a sign of retreat, also a way to signify roots, locale, authenticity, something that's both extremely boring, doesn't allow people to come into a genre at anytime without seeing it as a threat and unreachable and also inconsistent.

    I guess it's also cos dubstep kinda fucked up on the rhythm side of things, didn't really deliver on it's promise of being a post garage genre on the whole, so some people are quitting while they're ahead and trying to make a version of garage again.

    All these genre names are really really dreadful, things are being spliced so much nowdays a genre might consist of 3 records that only 2,000 people have.
    Last edited by mms; 07-02-2010 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #35
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    I'd say there's probably an audience for this stuff who were oblivious of 2-step b/c of being too young or into entirely different things at the time - but I'd be surprised if people like this who hated 2-step.

    Although that's partly because being in Australia I barely knew anyone who was aware of 2-step, so it wasn't the kind of thing anything hated as such.

    Was surprised, though, to discover from blackdown's blog that Whistla kinda dislikes uk funky and despises So Solid Crew et. al. I guess it explains why he does what he does though.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim F View Post

    Was surprised, though, to discover from blackdown's blog that Whistla kinda dislikes uk funky and despises So Solid Crew et. al. I guess it explains why he does what he does though.

    It seems very odd to dislike funky, i haven't read it but what were his reasons?

    Alot of people hated uk garage, esp if they'd come from drum and bass etc, pr didn't like dance music and esp as unlike drum and bass etc, it was ubiquitous in clubs and bars in and around london, signified bling to alot of people etc.
    Last edited by mms; 07-02-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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    B: The elephant in the future garage room for me is that you can very effectively argue that UK funky is future garage, or certainly UKG mark II. For me any move to revive garage ideas should do its best to work with the energy and ideas of the funky scene, as it has grass roots support in London and tons of momentum. But I sense you're not so keen, what's your feeling on if or how future garage and funky could interact?

    W: Yeah your right, I'm very uncomfortable with UK Funky. I don't particularly like the idea of UKG pt2 and I can see the same patterns repeating already that happened back with UKG pt1, the dress codes, the mc's, the "cheesey crossovers", except that its all happened in a year and a half, rather than over 5 yrs. I do however really like the fact that there is UK Funky, as it "leaves us alone" to build our thing without "scensters" trying to jump on it. I guess if pushed to make UK Funky and future garage interact I would have UK Funky in one room and future garage in another. Thats how I would envision it.

    I personally dont hear UK funky as being very "garagey." I dont often hear the "swing" and even less "the shuffle", plus tropical beats and soca patterns have never really been my thing. Most UK funky I've ever heard has been either very housey or too broken beat for my taste. I actually hear a stronger Acid House era influence to a lot of UK Funky than a garage one. Future Garage has that indescribable something that I want from tunes, funky hasn't given me that. And trying to "cash in" on the success of another scene also seems slightly wrong, I'd rather future garage do its own thing, on its own terms.


    Full interview for context: http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co...re-garage.html

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    NB. I'm not having a go at Whistla - it's good that he has an honest and worked out idea of what he likes, even if I feel very differently obv.

    It's interesting too b/c funky kinda revives basically everything about uk garage EXCEPT its specific beat matrix. Whereas "future garage" seems in large part to be about situating the uk garage beat matrix in different/new musical contexts.

    So it's like the two scenes split uk garage's lessons between them.

  9. #39
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    how much of this rubbish do you actually believe?
    what part of what i said do you ever so politely find fault with exactly? if you read various posts on dsf at any point in time you can usually read stuff that has a somewhat patronising attitude to overtly black scenes. its not exactly a great leap to think most people into future garage prob didnt like it back then, and prob still dont (though many will have changed their minds, as i said before).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim F View Post
    I'd say there's probably an audience for this stuff who were oblivious of 2-step b/c of being too young or into entirely different things at the time - but I'd be surprised if people like this who hated 2-step.
    of course the people making this stuff were too young to be into garage at the time, my cheeky 'posh boy' comment was more about how the landscape for garage-related music has shifted wholesale. I remember calling into this IDM-type shop on Old Street (forget it's name?) early last decade and overhead the owner boasting that when people call in and give him garage records, he went out the back and smashed them up. That kind of view of garage was pretty widespread amongst that electronic muso crowd and I guess it's just funny how everything has changed. Undoubtedly, IDM trumped by garage should be viewed as a triumph, until you realise its an IDM version of garage...all the interesting bits bleached out, stuff that really doesn't make you want to dance

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim F View Post
    B: The elephant in the future garage room for me is that you can very effectively argue that UK funky is future garage, or certainly UKG mark II. For me any move to revive garage ideas should do its best to work with the energy and ideas of the funky scene, as it has grass roots support in London and tons of momentum. But I sense you're not so keen, what's your feeling on if or how future garage and funky could interact?

    W: Yeah your right, I'm very uncomfortable with UK Funky. I don't particularly like the idea of UKG pt2 and I can see the same patterns repeating already that happened back with UKG pt1, the dress codes, the mc's, the "cheesey crossovers", except that its all happened in a year and a half, rather than over 5 yrs. I do however really like the fact that there is UK Funky, as it "leaves us alone" to build our thing without "scensters" trying to jump on it. I guess if pushed to make UK Funky and future garage interact I would have UK Funky in one room and future garage in another. Thats how I would envision it.

    I personally dont hear UK funky as being very "garagey." I dont often hear the "swing" and even less "the shuffle", plus tropical beats and soca patterns have never really been my thing. Most UK funky I've ever heard has been either very housey or too broken beat for my taste. I actually hear a stronger Acid House era influence to a lot of UK Funky than a garage one. Future Garage has that indescribable something that I want from tunes, funky hasn't given me that. And trying to "cash in" on the success of another scene also seems slightly wrong, I'd rather future garage do its own thing, on its own terms.


    Full interview for context: http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co...re-garage.html
    all very odd stuff

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumdrops View Post
    what part of what i said do you ever so politely find fault with exactly? if you read various posts on dsf at any point in time you can usually read stuff that has a somewhat patronising attitude to overtly black scenes. its not exactly a great leap to think most people into future garage prob didnt like it back then, and prob still dont (though many will have changed their minds, as i said before).
    i don't care if dubstep forum has twats on it i know that, so what, dubstep forum is as much a consensus as any other set of fans of a genre.

    i sometimes wonder if it's possible for a discussions of a dance genre to exist without these weird rather cynical and spiteful accusations of authenticity based around race and class to exist, as if thats consistent with anyone's actual experience of dancing to music. As if you know that they're posh, and if you could credibly make these characterisations, if you'd not seen their faces.

    i'm wondering why in your first post you seemed to be saying people who are trying to recreate garage didn't like garage, are doing it for the money, ( as if!) that people will find it superior essentially cos they're white etc, that seems far fetched and horribly cynical. Also the other stuff where you do a daft job of trying to make out whistla etc are eric clapton well
    Last edited by mms; 07-02-2010 at 07:50 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bun-u View Post
    of course the people making this stuff were too young to be into garage at the time, my cheeky 'posh boy' comment was more about how the landscape for garage-related music has shifted wholesale. I remember calling into this IDM-type shop on Old Street (forget it's name?) early last decade and overhead the owner boasting that when people call in and give him garage records, he went out the back and smashed them up. That kind of view of garage was pretty widespread amongst that electronic muso crowd and I guess it's just funny how everything has changed. Undoubtedly, IDM trumped by garage should be viewed as a triumph, until you realise its an IDM version of garage...all the interesting bits bleached out, stuff that really doesn't make you want to dance
    some guy in a long closed niche record store doesn't reflect anything now though really, he's just an obnoxious twat. That whistla interview suggests he's a big garage fan, and i would imagine it's hard to make garage if you didn't like it, idm's as long distant a genre as garage is now too, those politics are as much a 90's revival as anything else we're duscussing here!

    Furthermore if you look at alot of the micro house stuff etc and all that from just after garage started etc, its dance music that seems to be heavily invested in garage's beat science or extended concepts, even if producers didn't directly acknowledge it or weren't from the scene or the uk, it's there, and that stuff probably wouldn't have happened without idm happening too.
    Last edited by mms; 07-02-2010 at 03:49 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bun-u View Post
    of course the people making this stuff were too young to be into garage at the time, my cheeky 'posh boy' comment was more about how the landscape for garage-related music has shifted wholesale. I remember calling into this IDM-type shop on Old Street (forget it's name?) early last decade and overhead the owner boasting that when people call in and give him garage records, he went out the back and smashed them up. That kind of view of garage was pretty widespread amongst that electronic muso crowd and I guess it's just funny how everything has changed. Undoubtedly, IDM trumped by garage should be viewed as a triumph, until you realise its an IDM version of garage...all the interesting bits bleached out, stuff that really doesn't make you want to dance
    i'm glad that was just meant to be cheeky, because i was about to call you on a comment i felt was quite profoundly and uncharacteristically reactionary.

    who are these posh boys pushing garage? oneman? do you want to tell him he's posh or shall i? do you also want to tell him he wasn't into garage the first time round? who else are these straw djs or producers making garage? deadboy? whistla? what do you know about their backgrounds?

    sorry i'm not annoyed with you, but i worry this is an echo of the same patronising middle-class armchair-marxist bullshit in reynolds' post about how jam city wasn't viable cos he was too articulate, too musically literate - as bok bok said in response "whereas if he called himself cityjamz and talked road, he'd be fine"

    it makes me pretty angry, to be honest - not cos of what it says about joy orb or jam city or anyone making what is actually mostly house, not garage.. but because it reeks of noxious, patronising paternalism to everyone else.

  15. #45
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    anyway you're all missing the point - attitudes to garage 'the first time around' for the vast majority of people mentioned in this thread is irrelevant - BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO YOUNG!!

    whistla being the notable exception

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