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Thread: Anthony "Shake" Shakir - "All we did was put a black face on it"

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    ... and getting credit for it, like Bones said.
    Bone.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slothrop View Post
    I don't really know the pre-history of 4x4, though, and how and when it came into disco and what was the original spark for the use of it in detroit and chicago. Motown's all offbeats and (proto) breakbeats, isn't it?
    Yes and no. In a lot of Motown productions the breakbeat-like percussion elements are set against the backdrop of a '4 on the top' pulse - i.e. four hits per bar but played on the snare drum rather than the bass - really famous 60s soul tunes like Rescue Me are good examples of this.
    My impression is that the there was quite a lot of continuity of personnel between Motown and early US disco, when it was still at the stage of building productions from studio musician playing rather than programmed beats. But that some point and at whatever reason, the main pulse moved down from the snares to the bass drum (the bass drum on US disco tracks isn't always strictly 4 x4 though, iirc, so your point about Moroder and marching bands etc still stands).


    Dunno quite why I bothered posting here as I don't know or care a great deal about the history of techno. but I'm bored and my dad inflicted a lot of Motown on me at a young age. Some of it is cool still.

  3. #33
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    of course a lot of ancient music from around the world use an obvious, pronounced 4/4 beat. by ancient i mean forms which trace back thousands of years, such as Gamelan, Australian Aboriginal music, Amerindian, and of course, very many traditional African styles.

    been meaning to do an "ancient minimalism" mix for a long time... keeps getting postponed because there are like, 7 or 8 other more urgent projects that need finishing.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    Edward, i was talking about the "genetic axis" of the music, not of the people who made/make it.

    meaning the direct ancestral lineage of techno is funk soul disco motown gospel blues jazz slave songs, WITH loads of other influences and inspiration.

    no one group "owns" anything. it is a hybrid entity. but its origins are not evenly distributed amongst various sources of inspiration; it is indeed more the offspring of one lineage than others. AND:

    certain groups or classes have a history of claiming the culture of other groups or classes as their own, and getting credit for it, like Bones said. and i see, perhaps being overly sensitive, perhaps not, a little bit of the same thing happening with Techno.
    and this is what i have been saying all along.

    i find it curious, to say the least, that some of you Euros get all bent out of shape about it.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    perhaps not, a little bit of the same thing happening with Techno.
    Let's have some names then, who?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    a good listen, and yes with wit and humor! not an easy feat for a raster noton release
    I think AtomTM released 3 albums in 2009, but, yeah, 'Liedgut' was my fave. And as for the wit and humour, it's definitely there but it's also one of the least outright jokey things he'd done for some time. Soooo tired of all the Senor Coconut stuff, for instance.

    No one answered my question about whether Shake's done other stuff like 'Mr Shakir's Beat Shop'. I knew this'd happen as soon as I saw people mentioning zhao.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Dust View Post
    Let's have some names then, who?
    i see that happening in the world at large. and when someone on here asks the, probably innocent but all the same skewed, question, "wasn't Detroit Techno is largely (predominantly) inspired by (caused by) Euro-Synth?", it reminds me of what i perceive in the world at large, and i make a correction.

    and when i do make a case for the justified central lineage of this music, a bunch of people get all huffy and puffy and turn blue in the face, and start calling me "full of shit" and "just here to frustrate them". which proves my point: if what i describe does not exist, me pointing it out would not bother anyone.

    might be a far stretch, might not, but i suspect this reaction may be connected to some deeply seated insecurity, where Europe would like to feel like it invented important stuff while through out history major technological and other inventions have been made else where and brought there.
    Last edited by zhao; 10-02-2010 at 05:32 AM. Reason: "genetic axis" changed to "lineage"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael View Post
    I think AtomTM released 3 albums in 2009, but, yeah, 'Liedgut' was my fave. And as for the wit and humour, it's definitely there but it's also one of the least outright jokey things he'd done for some time. Soooo tired of all the Senor Coconut stuff, for instance.
    oh i wish you could have seen him last sat. night... so true so real so... Pure. that classic archetypal electro goodness, yet up to date in 2010 -- digital details, incremental, modular shifts that are not as much perceived as much as felt. 21st century machine funk at its best...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    justified central genetic axis
    I don't want to get involved in the 457th iteration of this argument. however, in the name of biology I must ask to you stop appropriating its concepts & misapplying them to your ideas; there is no such thing as a "genetic axis". more to the point, please cease & desist using confusing mixed metaphors about "hybrids" & inheritance & so on. Gregor Mendel does not want to be associated with your thesis on the primacy of Kenyan hand drums.

    that is all.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    oh i wish you could have seen him last sat. night... so true so real so... Pure. that classic archetypal electro goodness, yet up to date in 2010 -- digital details, incremental, modular shifts that are not as much perceived as much as felt. 21st century machine funk at its best...
    He's got a CD out just now called 'Music Is Better Than Pussy' which is probably what he was riffing on (according to people on ye olde AtomTM mailing list). There's some bits and pieces on his Youtube channel.

  11. #41
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    and just for argument's sake:

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    DJ Bone rails against commercialisation of a sound he loves, he's dissing the silly trance shit that was all over German MTV in the 90s. He doesn't say a word about race in your quote.
    i never mentioned race, but here is another quote from Bones:

    SmSh: So, in other interviews you talk a lot about international DJs�� DJs from Europe, wherever, biting on the early Detroit Techno sound and repackaging it. Is that something you still see happening today in a major way?

    DJ Bone: Yeah, major way. They might not want to admit it. Well, they piggyback and as soon as they felt they were at the pinnacle, they drop it -- drop the association. Everyone was describing their shit, ��it��s Detroit-esque��, it��s ��Detroit-lite��, it��s ��Detroit-inspired��. But as soon as they got to the point where they thought they were the shit, then they dropped it: ��I��m my own person, I like to sound different...��

    Bullshit.

    That��s the same motherfucker who was coming to Detroit and taking notes, watching people, know what I mean? Fuck that.

    And it might come across as harsh when I say it but it��s been like that...

    SmSh: Have you heard of Motor City Drum Ensemble?

    DJ Bone: Yes.

    SmSh: I think it��s like a dude from Stuttgart but he��s got the 70��s afro-chic packaging..

    DJ Bone: Oh yeah... I��m really upset with that. On the record, I was so upset when I met Terry Lee Brown Jr. Have you heard of him?

    SmSh: No.

    DJ Bone: He was doing house music. I think he��s out of Germany, I don��t know, somewhere in Europe. His logo is this black guy, right, with big lips and a short little afro... it wasn��t a caricature that offended me, it was just somebody that looked kinda soulful, and everybody who bought his record thought that the picture was him.

    That��s him, you know. I met him in London and I just went off. They introduced me and it was some tall white guy from Germany.

    SmSh: Looking like one of the dudes in Kraftwerk?

    DJ Bone: So, straight up, I was like why the fuck do you have this black guy on your records -- they couldn��t believe I said that -- but that��s just wrong...

    SmSh: What did he say?

    DJ Bone: He said that he didn��t want to be judged on what he looked like, ��it��s about the music��, whatever... yeah, but then put the music out there, don��t put a fake-ass face out there. Go ahead and be faceless.

  12. #42
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    i do think that is really ugly and dishonest.

  13. #43
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    and i'm not saying that Shake has a bone to pick (sorry couldn't resist) with Bone, but that is the kind of attitude he seems to be reacting against.

  14. #44
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    I met DJ Bone once. According to him, every single form of dance music ever other than house is ripping off Detroit techno, because they did everything first.

  15. #45
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    I don't want to get into extended quote wars or elongate an already well worn debate but Chez Damier has some interesting thoughts on the history of Chicago House:

    But I often find myself questioning people's experience [of that period]. Although I don't claim to be an expert I can literally say that I've witnessed quite a bit. And when I say witnessed I don't mean hearsay, I mean that I was actually there. I hear some stories and some people's interpretation of it and I think, "That's all wrong."

    People seldom mention Herb Kent who, to me, was the father of it all. He was the one that could play disco at the same time as the B-52s and totally educate me—I didn't know who the B-52s were [before that]—who can give you punk rock and disco and Italo all in the same breath. These were the people that changed my life. [But people] want to say, "It came from this kind of underground black gay club," which is not a problem—and I'm not taking anything away from that—but there was always something parallel happening. And when I went to the white gay clubs that were promoting the British invasion: The Thompson Twins, the whole Sheffield sound as well as Italo [disco]. And these other urban kids were also experiencing that, but they were combining it with disco and [putting] their interpretation on it. So I get so confused when I get into the whole [history of it].
    The point being that influence and musical heritage is a complex multifaceted thing. Attaching primacy or cause to a particular influence (whether it be Soul/Disco or Euro-Synth) is always to grossly simplify.

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