Fire fe de Vatican

Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Looking back through the article, Dawkins doesn't really dwell on alleged Catholic support for the Nazis; his main thrust is that Hitler sought to claim spiritual and cultural legitimacy for Nazism by appealing to Germany's Catholic heritage. Or southern Germany's Catholic heritage, anyway - Hitler (an Austrian, remember) hated the old Protestant Hanseatic towns in the north of the country and considered them 'un-German'.

And Dawkins is of course quite right to point out that the latent anti-Semitism the Nazis tapped into was the product of centuries of Church-mandated Jew-hating.

And whether the god Hitler believed in was the common-or-garden Christian God or not is really neither here nor there if you're trying to show he wasn't an atheist, which he clearly wasn't.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
Looking back through the article, Dawkins doesn't really dwell on alleged Catholic support for the Nazis; his main thrust is that Hitler sought to claim spiritual and cultural legitimacy for Nazism by appealing to Germany's Catholic heritage. Or southern Germany's Catholic heritage, anyway - Hitler (an Austrian, remember) hated the old Protestant Hanseatic towns in the north of the country and considered them 'un-German'.
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I don't know where the idea that he hated them comes from - Mein Kampf, I guess - but Nazism evolved a long, long way beyond the walls of his prison cell. The Nazi party was more than just Hitler and those northern Protestant towns (even more so the northern Protestant countryside) were the Nazis' electoral bedrock, in as much as they had one.

And Dawkins is of course quite right to point out that the latent anti-Semitism the Nazis tapped into was the product of centuries of Church-mandated Jew-hating.
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Yes, obviously.

And whether the god Hitler believed in was the common-or-garden Christian God or not is really neither here nor there if you're trying to show he wasn't an atheist, which he clearly wasn't.
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That depends whether you're the head of the largest, most autocratic Christian church on earth or not ;) Hitler was a confused mystic/agnostic and it's not so surprising the pope should confuse that with godlessness.

I was reading this at the time this all blew up and it's remarkable the extent to which serious religion is almost entirely absent from Nazi thinking. Dawkins article is just unrecognisable in the big picture.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
OK, obviously the Nazi party (and the impulses that led to its foundation) predated Hitler and there must have been a considerable variety of opinion even in the top echelons in the party - several members of the Nazi cabinet (Himmler and Hess in particular, I think) were heavily into paganism and the occult, which Hitler himself had little interest in, AFAIK. Whether the current pope would consider this 'godlessness' is of no consequence, I mean that dickhead who wanted to burn the koran probably thinks Muslims are devil-worshippers - doesn't make it true. Even if Dawkins has exaggerated the Nazis' interest in religion that doesn't at all reinforce the pope's claim that it was a "fundametalist atheist" movement. Presumably such a movement would have had a great deal to say about religion, inasmuch as it would be constitute the enemy.

I remember Jonathon Meades talking about Hitler's antipathy towards Germany's northern towns in a documentary about the Hanseatic league - obviously Meades is a bit of a joker but his history is usually pretty well-researched, I think. Though as you say, Nazism was much bigger than just Hitler.
 
D

droid

Guest
Why doesnt the Vatican have a football team? The pope could be manager. Anyone who's been baptised would be eligible to play, so they could poach players from all the top catholic countries.

Could definitely see them making the semis of the euros.
 
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droid

Guest
lol

"The Vatican City national football team (Italian: Selezione di calcio della Città del Vaticano) is the football team that represents Vatican City. They are one of only seven fully recognised sovereign states whose national team is not a FIFA member. The others are Monaco, Tuvalu, Kiribati, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru and Palau. The football association of Vatican City was founded in 1972. The current president of the FA is Sergio Valci.[1] The team has been managed by Giovanni Trapattoni in the past."

"The Vatican City have played only four full international games, against Monaco in 2002 and 2011, a friendly game against San Marino in 2006, and a friendly game against Palestine in 2010"
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Ransbeeck

Ransbeeck

Well-known member
Hoping for a black pope, since every catholic I know is also an old, frustrated racist. Too bad all the African candidates seem to be even more conservative than Benny.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well the Archbish of York is black, and that's the second-highest post in the Anglican communion, isn't it?
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Vatican had more than a billion euros off books before financial clean-up

download1.jpg
 
version

version

Well-known member
www.reuters.com

Pope Francis calls 'insinuations' against John Paul II unfounded

The pope rejected as offensive and unfounded comments by the brother of Vatican schoolgirl Emanuela Orlandi who went missing 40 years ago.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Emanuela Orlandi, the daughter of a Vatican usher, failed to return home on June 22, 1983 following a music lesson in Rome. She was 15 at the time and lived with her family inside the Vatican. Her disappearance is one of Italy's most enduring mysteries.

The case entered a new chapter on Tuesday when her brother Pietro met with Vatican chief prosecutor Alessandro Diddi, whom Francis has given free rein to get to the bottom of the case.

After speaking to Diddi for more than eight hours, Pietro Orlandi appeared on a television programme where he played part of an audio recording with the voice of a man Orlandi said was part of an organised crime group that Italian media have for decades speculated may have been involved in his sister's disappearance.

The voice of the alleged gangster says that more than 40 year ago, girls were brought into the Vatican to be molested and that Pope John Paul knew about it.

Orlandi then said in his own words on the show: "They tell me Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II's surname) used to go out in the evenings with two Polish monsignors and it certainly was not to bless houses"
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
version said:
www.reuters.com

Pope Francis calls 'insinuations' against John Paul II unfounded

The pope rejected as offensive and unfounded comments by the brother of Vatican schoolgirl Emanuela Orlandi who went missing 40 years ago.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Emanuela Orlandi, the daughter of a Vatican usher, failed to return home on June 22, 1983 following a music lesson in Rome. She was 15 at the time and lived with her family inside the Vatican. Her disappearance is one of Italy's most enduring mysteries.

The case entered a new chapter on Tuesday when her brother Pietro met with Vatican chief prosecutor Alessandro Diddi, whom Francis has given free rein to get to the bottom of the case.

After speaking to Diddi for more than eight hours, Pietro Orlandi appeared on a television programme where he played part of an audio recording with the voice of a man Orlandi said was part of an organised crime group that Italian media have for decades speculated may have been involved in his sister's disappearance.

The voice of the alleged gangster says that more than 40 year ago, girls were brought into the Vatican to be molested and that Pope John Paul knew about it.

Orlandi then said in his own words on the show: "They tell me Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II's surname) used to go out in the evenings with two Polish monsignors and it certainly was not to bless houses"
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Sounds like one for Roger Boyes to investigate.
 
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