nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Yeah, except pointing out that a class of former slaves has it worse than geeky middle class white men is nothing like saying Israel has a right to Palestinian land.
"Owning"
- Thread starter Woebot
- Start date
Yeah, except pointing out that a class of former slaves has it worse than geeky middle class white men is nothing like saying Israel has a right to Palestinian land.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
fair comment.
Mixed_Biscuits and Polystyle have some interesting thoughts from page 4 of that cultural differences thread that kind of fit w Grizzleb bringing up hikikomori. (though i know you were on that thread too, G.)
Grizzleb's legitimate quibbles w some aspects of Nomad's generally sound definition of power aside (ie white w/c geeks in the UK hardly have a fine old time of it structurally speaking in that country), i think she is rather pwning this thread
(sorry, i'll get my coat)
but re problems emerging out of internet/pc culture that work to isolate people, i agree Grizzleb, it's something we hear very little about. granted, i don't have anything to add i'm ashamed to say, as it's not an area i know of (despite spending a fair bit of time online my online usage is mostly geared toward reading Fancy a Pint reviews so i can see which pub to meet that mate at this time, or arguing about politics/football which i then repeat when i'm out and etc etc etc)
i wonder if a higher percentage (relative to another income bracket background) of low income kids 'choose' to withdraw as geeks
or a higher percentage (ditto) of middle income kids 'choose' to withdraw, and so on.
if there was some way of factoring in that to a discussion about internet/pc culture, that might be the basis of an interesting group of stats. i mean, i know kids escape into fantasy when the real world is too cruel or indifferent to want to work with (or for a million and one reasons, i'm sure), but that can cover a multitude of withdrawn folk from a wide range of backgrounds etc.
sorry this is all rather amateur hour sociology but hey!
matmustard
theta
why the assumption that gang = black? woebot made no mention of race.
are all "scary black men" in gangs?
grizzleb
Well-known member
Haha. Are all geeks white?
@nomad - I'm just pointing out the problems with every conversation about people who aren't in a position of status/wealth/power tending towards "but they aren't black, their problems are lesser" or equivalent.
Does the geek shut in who has x, y mental health problems, no qualifications, heavy social problems have it better off than the big G who makes a reasonable living off the back of punting drugs? (I'm being facetious but the point remains).
scottdisco
rip this joint please
does anyone know any geeks? i mean in the classical, stereotyped sense of people who game a lot, sustain themselves socially through online gaming networks etc almost exclusively?
(stop me if this is a one-dimensional or plain wrong view of what you can call geek culture. i mean, there are coffee geeks, pasta geeks, cricket geeks, techno geeks, etc, but i mean the online gamer kind, as i've known of a few down the years - not in contact no more - and one could always see how choices made virtually about another hour on the machine impacted negatively on their real-life commitments etc. anecdotal, of course.)
(stop me if this is a one-dimensional or plain wrong view of what you can call geek culture. i mean, there are coffee geeks, pasta geeks, cricket geeks, techno geeks, etc, but i mean the online gamer kind, as i've known of a few down the years - not in contact no more - and one could always see how choices made virtually about another hour on the machine impacted negatively on their real-life commitments etc. anecdotal, of course.)
scottdisco
rip this joint please
haha caned is great, i do like that one! 'tanned' is a similar one. i used to use them both myself a lot.
i don't know about other Anglophone countries but certainly in the UK caned is also a synonym for drunk. (or i guess other substances too.) and if you are caning it you are imbibing.
i don't know about other Anglophone countries but certainly in the UK caned is also a synonym for drunk. (or i guess other substances too.) and if you are caning it you are imbibing.
In Brit slang to be 'caned' usually means either very wasted (typically on marijuana), or to cane something is to do / use / indulge in a lot of it.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
No, the point does not remain.
White people do not, no matter who they are, or how lowly their social status, deal with the same basic level of institutionalized racism that minorities do *every day*, *all the time*, in *every walk of life*.
Goddammit, the whole "but what about the poor white meenzz?" internet shtick is so ridiculous.
Snort. No, but most gangs are black men or other minorities. What I said does not require that all gangs are black, but simply that most gangs are made of minorities, and most often, black men.
The fact that some white people have it rough in no way mitigates or negates the fact that the vast majority of ethnic majorities in post-colonial diasporas are disadvantaged socially, economically, and otherwise. This is what "white privilege" means-- all white people have it, simply by virtue of being seen as "white" by society, without even trying. A poor white person, even at the same income/poverty level as a black person, has a better shot at economic opportunities and social parity than their black counterpart does.
The logical 'abilities' of people on here gets to me sometimes. Think through what you say... think, am I maybe trying to sweep racism under the rug by shutting down any discussion of the fact that it exists?
White people do not, no matter who they are, or how lowly their social status, deal with the same basic level of institutionalized racism that minorities do *every day*, *all the time*, in *every walk of life*.
Goddammit, the whole "but what about the poor white meenzz?" internet shtick is so ridiculous.
Snort. No, but most gangs are black men or other minorities. What I said does not require that all gangs are black, but simply that most gangs are made of minorities, and most often, black men.
The fact that some white people have it rough in no way mitigates or negates the fact that the vast majority of ethnic majorities in post-colonial diasporas are disadvantaged socially, economically, and otherwise. This is what "white privilege" means-- all white people have it, simply by virtue of being seen as "white" by society, without even trying. A poor white person, even at the same income/poverty level as a black person, has a better shot at economic opportunities and social parity than their black counterpart does.
The logical 'abilities' of people on here gets to me sometimes. Think through what you say... think, am I maybe trying to sweep racism under the rug by shutting down any discussion of the fact that it exists?
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An American once told me that geeks are simply people with a strong interest in something, as Scott suggests. This is not necessarily the same as a nerd at all. I never thought it applies solely to gamers. That would be like Otaku, right?
I like how in that interview (with Tony Wilson?) Iggy Pop almost equates nerds with twits. Funny to hear Americans using such British words in slightly the wrong way. Like how it's nearly always funny when a yank says 'wanker', or 'bollocks'.
I like how in that interview (with Tony Wilson?) Iggy Pop almost equates nerds with twits. Funny to hear Americans using such British words in slightly the wrong way. Like how it's nearly always funny when a yank says 'wanker', or 'bollocks'.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
The only American I've ever heard say either of those words is Padraig, on here.
How is "nerd" an English word and not an American one? Or are you saying twit is? Because nobody here says that, either.
4linehaiku
Repetitive
I'm just finishing up a four year computer science related degree, so yeah I know quite a lot of proper old school geeks. Though of course they are surrounded by people with similar interests so I guess the sustain themselves socially via games alone part might be missing. The result of my ethnographic studies: they are much like any other group of people with strong interests in things I don't really care about, and are no more or less boring / socially inadequate than people who bang on about football or whatever.
Though actually now I think about it I know another couple of guys who work part-time in a supermarket and outside of work do literally nothing but smoke weed and play Starcraft. They definitely did fall into online-identity only stereotype. I didn't take any precise scientific readings of their abstract 'power' though, so I'm not sure I can help settle the debate. They were fucking good at Starcraft though I can tell you that much.
Edit: Geeks / Nerds / Whatever. I don't know what the differences are.
4linehaiku
Repetitive
Also "caned' is excellent. Usually in the context of going very fast though.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
all fair comment, i sounded like a bit of a cock earlier, my bad. i just meant, the two chaps you know of there who literally fall into an online-only stereotype, well, i guess i was running rather too imprecisely w something someone else brought up earlier... (some of my phrasing in this thread is fucking embarrassing, tbf)
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scottdisco
rip this joint please
true. but does Grizzleb have to make these (totally accurate) caveats every time they want to raise some point about the economic status of poor w/c British whites specifically? it is going to be in all our minds when we discuss it, i just don't think we necessarily need to insert these caveats on the board.
(though i appreciate context is all, and so not being mindful of white privilege would obviously be a massive oversight, to say the very least.)
natch, their white privilege means all the things you said, but i did quite enjoy the way Grizzleb tackled talking about society's victims earlier, seemed fair to me...
4linehaiku
Repetitive
Ah I only just clocked the point you were making re: the geeks. I kind of skipped over it, and just responded blindly to your "anyone know any?" post. The University types aren't really withdrawing, they're just students. Soon to imminently employable ones at that, with IBM internships etc, so they certainly don't count as left behind by society / whatever this thread is tangentially about recently.
The other guys, well I'm not really sure about their social backgrounds, but I think the obsessive gaming is a symptom rather than the problem for sure. One of these guys lived with a mate of mine for a bit, and he was extremely shy, so not really killing it on the social scene, his job was a menial grind, he had no qualifications or grand ambitions or whatever. So what else was he going to do? If didn't have the computer games he'd probably be smoking weed and watching TV instead. I'd pick the games every time given that choice.
You could argue that online gaming is making things worse by making the retreat from reality easier, but if IRL is basically shit then why not be a level 200 paladin or one of the best 'game X' players in the UK or whatever.
The other guys, well I'm not really sure about their social backgrounds, but I think the obsessive gaming is a symptom rather than the problem for sure. One of these guys lived with a mate of mine for a bit, and he was extremely shy, so not really killing it on the social scene, his job was a menial grind, he had no qualifications or grand ambitions or whatever. So what else was he going to do? If didn't have the computer games he'd probably be smoking weed and watching TV instead. I'd pick the games every time given that choice.
You could argue that online gaming is making things worse by making the retreat from reality easier, but if IRL is basically shit then why not be a level 200 paladin or one of the best 'game X' players in the UK or whatever.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
deffo to all this.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
I think eliding that info from a discussion is a huge problem and one of the not-even subtle ways that institutionalized racism perpetuates itself...
Anyway, the whole reason it was brought up at all was because someone made a post that implied that "owning" when used as slang was more acceptable morally because it didn't originate in gang 'slanguage'-- which makes it somehow less capitalistical than if it originated in Geekspeak. I mean, I don't see how I'm the only person who found that strange... it's the same thing every racist in the U.S. says-- that somehow racial minorities being macho, hip-hop, 'thug' clothes, etc., are all signs that Satan is upon us. But Clint Eastwood is an American hero.