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Thread: The Unions

  1. #1
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    Default The Unions

    this made me laugh!
    Over at Unison headquarters, Anita Edwards, team leader in the West Midlands equal pay unit, is making coffee in the break-out area. "Real coffee beans," she says with a smile. "Macchiato or cappuccino?"
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...pay-birmingham

    amusing piece on an interesting case, which illustrates some of the reasons why the unions still seem to be losing ground after 13 years of labour...

    what's your experience of the union?
    mine's certainly more along the lines of this article than the traditional 'down tools all out' approach

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    This BA injunction shit is absolutely ludicrous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slothrop View Post
    This BA injunction shit is absolutely ludicrous.
    yep

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    Default !!Ka-bump!!

    remember, you may think that tube drivers are overpaid, but

    this strike is about safety -
    - cutting staff at stations by 800 & 7500 hours of opening times
    - reducing the amount of maintenance checks from bi-weekly to 4 weeks
    not about pay

    the tories accusing rmt of political opportunism, but i'm kinda surprised (disappointed perhaps) that they havent fucked with that fat prick boris more up til now actually...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sufi View Post
    remember, you may think that tube drivers are overpaid, but

    this strike is about safety -
    - cutting staff at stations by 800 & 7500 hours of opening times
    - reducing the amount of maintenance checks from bi-weekly to 4 weeks
    not about pay

    the tories accusing rmt of political opportunism, but i'm kinda surprised (disappointed perhaps) that they havent fucked with that fat prick boris more up til now actually...
    the Tories accusing RMT of political opportunism is like being lectured by Wayne Rooney on marital fidelity.

    deeply heartened by John and Sufi's words on this topic.

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    If it's legit safety concerns then obviously that's different from a standard salary gripe or a strike over someone getting sacked. I think what wound me up the most in the other thread was massrock's rather flippant "is 40,000 really that much money?" - um, yes. Yes, it is.
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    What's flippant?

    What is your basis for saying 40,000 'is a lot' of money? By what measure? Do you think it's too much? Compared to what, how much you or others might get paid? Why do you need to make this comparison? Out of a sense of 'fairness' perhaps? Or envy?

    Maybe you think the tube workers should get less so that others who get a share of the same allocated pool of tokens can have more. Perhaps, but does it really work that way? I think you need to put that in a larger context and decide if the basis for the 'economy' is 'fair'. Where does the money come from, how is it allocated, where does most of it go? Where does most of it go after it's been paid to the workers? What are the mechanisms involved?

    So it's a relatively decent wage, but in the context of a shitty system and all sorts of 'unfairness'. Aren't you just buying into this then and misdirecting your resentment? Crabs and barrels. Fuck it, let them get what they can, within reason, it's never going to be that much. And the main thing to realise is they're not taking anything away from you or others compared to the colossal amounts of wealth being extracted and hoarded by the actual cunts are they? You're on the same side you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post
    What's flippant?

    What is your basis for saying 40,000 'is a lot' of money? By what measure? Do you think it's too much? Compared to what, how much you or others might get paid? Why do you need to make this comparison? Out of a sense of 'fairness' perhaps? Or envy?
    Well over a billion people in the world live on less than 1% of that. How's that for "absolute terms"?

    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post
    Maybe you think the tube workers should get less so that others who get a share of the same allocated pool of tokens can have more. Perhaps, but does it really work that way?
    Presumably the high wages paid to tube drivers are one of the reasons it's so expensive to use. Am I missing something here? It's pretty straightforward, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by massrock View Post
    I think you need to put that in a larger context and decide if the basis for the 'economy' is 'fair'. Where does the money come from, how is it allocated, where does most of it go? Where does most of it go after it's been paid to the workers? What are the mechanisms involved?

    So it's a relatively decent wage, but in the context of a shitty system and all sorts of 'unfairness'. Aren't you just buying into this then and misdirecting your resentment? Crabs and barrels. Fuck it, let them get what they can, within reason, it's never going to be that much. And the main thing to realise is they're not taking anything away from you or others compared to the colossal amounts of wealth being extracted and hoarded by the actual cunts are they? You're on the same side you know.
    But that's all a much, much larger question, isn't it? If you're asking me to suggest how we go about restructuring the entire economy to make it "fairer", by whatever standards you consider fair, I'm afraid I'm not qualified to do that. Neither, I suspect, is any one person.

    Who are these "actual cunts" - do you mean the directors of the companies involved in the PPP and their shareholders? It'd be interesting to see how much of the tenner you put on your Oyster card goes to them rather than paying for the operating costs of the network. I don't mean to say I think it would be an insignificant amount, because I really have idea of how it breaks down - but it would be interesting to compare.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 08-09-2010 at 04:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Presumably the high wages paid to tube drivers are one of the reasons it's so expensive to use. Am I missing something here? It's pretty straightforward, isn't it?
    The RMT had argued consistently for a reduction in fares and has been opposed to there being a differential for people who don't have oyster cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    But that's all a much, much larger question, isn't it? If you're asking me to suggest how we go about restructuring the entire economy to make it "fairer", by whatever standards you consider fair, I'm afraid I'm not qualified to do that. Neither, I suspect, is any one person.
    Maybe one model would be for a bunch of people to band together to try and

    a) reduce inequality
    b) increase their own working conditions
    c) discuss how to make things fairer for workers everywhere

    now, what would be a good name for that?

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    WHO ARE THE ACTUAL CUNTS?

    ...is the question everyone should be asking right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Well over a billion people in the world live on less than 1% of that. How's that for "absolute terms"?
    Yes absolutely, or less. Why is that though? Is reducing wages in the developed world the answer? It's also not a direct comparison as a monetary figure is not an absolute measure of wealth or even purchasing power. It's dependent on other conditions of course, but yes it is a huge amount compared with how much money the vast majority of humans have. Does that mean it's actually an unreasonable figure to expect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Who are these "actual cunts" - do you mean the directors of the companies involved in the PPP and their shareholders? It'd be interesting to see how much of the tenner you put on your Oyster card goes to them rather than paying for the operating costs of the network. I don't mean to say I think it would be an insignificant amount, because I really have idea of how it breaks down - but it would be interesting to compare.
    Well maybe, and it would be interesting to see, but I mean as compared to the amount of value extracted from the economy by people and organisations that profit from war, manipulate markets and economic systems, exploit conditions of poverty in other countries etc. Pretty sure the London Underground payroll hardly compares. What I mean is there are much bigger targets if you want to complain about greed and what goes on at those levels actually does have an effect on not only third world poverty but the cost of public transport here as well. Suspect there are many other factors that affect fares too, and that there ways in which fares could be reduced if that's your concern. I dunno, but I don't think it's simply a straight equation with pay.
    Last edited by massrock; 08-09-2010 at 07:32 PM.

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    So it's perceived effect on fare prices when they see what tube workers are paid that bothers people then?

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    The real question is where do I sign up to be a tube driver?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webstarr View Post
    The real question is where do I sign up to be a tube driver?
    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/jobs/default.aspx

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    as an impartial arbiter i am obliged to say, mr tea, you lost this one.

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