Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: Music / Not Music

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Posts
    232

    Default Music / Not Music

    excuse the preamble:

    my best friend is an english teacher out in Singapore who's introducing a basic Theory of Knowledge unit for certain GCSE-equivalent students. They're covering all the basics in that regard but his main push is regarding aesthetics, which he feels is taught as being "softer" than proper sciences when it comes to TOK. So he's trying to engage the kids in these "what is art?" basics and traditionally it seems to be done with visual art (y'know, here's an early Picasso which is a beautiful reproduction, now here's a late Picasso which looks primitive, what's going on here kinda thing?). But most kids of the age he's teaching don't give a damn about visual art and instead are music-fixated.

    So yesterday we had a drunken discussion about how he might tackle the "what is music" issue, and he's looking for some useful, illuminating pieces - not TOO odd, these are fairly young kids - to get them thinking.

    I suggested he use a field recording of, say, a waterfall or similar. then play something like Nurse With Wound's Salt Marie Celeste, which is almost a "fictional field recording", in a sense. Then ask if the kids consider it music, and if not, why not? and move further in towards what's conventionally considered music and get them to examine their assumptions...

    SO (hungover preamble over). Recommendations wanted for interesting, ideally fun, pieces that would challenge kids' notions of what music is or isn't that he can use as a tool in his lessons?
    handcrafted mischief for the jumble sale of liberty

    http://speakerspushair.wordpress.com/ (my blog)
    http://oldrecordclub.wordpress.com/ (the Randy & Earl blog)
    http://prodnews.wordpress.com/ (People's Republic of Disco)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    leicester
    Posts
    1,756

    Default

    the 'not too odd' bit is holding me back here!

    fairly obvious extremities like:
    4'33"
    metal machine music

    i would play 10 pieces that have been accused of being "not music" (like the above) and get the kids to decide and debate where the boundary lies.

    here's a fun place to start: http://www.av1611.org/cqguide.html

    scroll down to "what is rock music?"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    leicester
    Posts
    1,756

    Default

    and how about this:
    http://open.spotify.com/track/15ktJgdBDaGCoxG815tIvy

    if you don't have spotify it's a telephone ringing

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Posts
    232

    Default

    cheers - he's trying some Cge already but I will suggest the MMM. and that Christian music site is great, thanks
    handcrafted mischief for the jumble sale of liberty

    http://speakerspushair.wordpress.com/ (my blog)
    http://oldrecordclub.wordpress.com/ (the Randy & Earl blog)
    http://prodnews.wordpress.com/ (People's Republic of Disco)

  5. #5

    Default

    Maybe some early electronic music and musique concrete, for example Vareses "Poeme Electronique" or "Etudes aux chemin de fer" by Pierre Schaeffer. They use "non-musical" sounds but are quite obviously composed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Posts
    232

    Default

    yeh, i think that'd be good. And maybe some beatboxing followed by the teacher himself making some random mumbling noises. One is "music", one, allegedly, isn't...
    handcrafted mischief for the jumble sale of liberty

    http://speakerspushair.wordpress.com/ (my blog)
    http://oldrecordclub.wordpress.com/ (the Randy & Earl blog)
    http://prodnews.wordpress.com/ (People's Republic of Disco)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,518

    Default

    Maybe he could use a sound editing prog gradually to alter a piece of music to the point at which it becomes something other.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    17,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mixed_biscuits View Post
    Maybe he could use a sound editing prog gradually to alter a piece of music to the point at which it becomes something other.
    ...or start with some psytrance and gradually distort and corrupt it to see if at any point it begins to resemble music?
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    leicester
    Posts
    1,756

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    ...or start with some psytrance and gradually distort and corrupt it to see if at any point it begins to resemble music?
    don't be ridiculous

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,529

    Default

    how about Machine Gun by Peter Brotzmann tentet? It's very full on but is an interesting example because 'real' instruments are being played proficiently, but it sounds like an unholy bloody racket.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    ...or start with some psytrance and gradually distort and corrupt it to see if at any point it begins to resemble music?
    that defies all known laws of the universe.
    handcrafted mischief for the jumble sale of liberty

    http://speakerspushair.wordpress.com/ (my blog)
    http://oldrecordclub.wordpress.com/ (the Randy & Earl blog)
    http://prodnews.wordpress.com/ (People's Republic of Disco)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    ...or start with some psytrance and gradually distort and corrupt it to see if at any point it begins to resemble music?
    lol

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,366

    Default

    not sure if i'm on the right track but i immediately though of these records.

    reynols - blank tapes

    john oswald - plunderphonics 69/96

    komar & melamid and david soldier - the most unwanted music

    chris watson's stuff

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    17,087

    Default

    Just play them Throbbing Gristle's Hamburger Lady until they're all in tears or have left the classroom.

    That'll teach them...I dunno, something. Good for a laugh, anyway.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    berlin
    Posts
    8,477

    Default

    also play music from the past which were considered "not music" when they first appeared:

    Eric Satie
    Louis Armstrong
    Stravinsky
    Chuck Berry
    etc, etc.

    and tell historical anecdotes/stories that go along with each.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •