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Thread: The Game - Neil Strauss

  1. #31
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    If Machiavelli gives sound and universally applicable advice in Il Principe on how to aquire, increase and retain power by exploiting human weaknesses, I don't see why it shouldn't be equally possible, given a sufficiently high motivation to investigate the matter, to actually come up with pretty reliable and efficient tecniques to be successful in the much more mundane area of life that is dating. Considering the inherent comicality of the situation of human mating it is perfectly plausible to assume that the one who pushes the ridiculousness to the limit will, in fact, be also the one to attain the greatest success in this particular endeavour - just as in the amoral sphere of politics it is the extraordinarily ruthless actor who will be triumphant in the end. Thus, "pick-up artists" can only be said to be misogynistic in the same sense that Machiavellians can be said to be cynical or unscrupulous: their behaviour merely reflects the most expedient way to have the firmest possible grip on certain realities of life. In this sense, life itself is misogynistic or inhuman. This being said, Tea and padraig, why don't the two of you just piss off and start masturbating over the pictures of those bodybuilder type females you posted in the "Hot New Skool Babes" thread? You would love some good manhandling by those fine ladies, wouldn't you?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    also who wants to put $ down on the chance that c.l. comes back with some line about how I/anyone else is just too bitter/jealous/uptight/[insert similar adjective here] to appreciate, yunno, the greater glory of systematizing pick-up lines.
    yes i will surely put money down on the chance that you, padraig (u.s.), are a joyless self righteous bore with a giant stick up your ass ALL the fucking time.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanugo View Post
    If Machiavelli gives sound and universally applicable advice in Il Principe on how to aquire, increase and retain power by exploiting human weaknesses, I don't see why it shouldn't be equally possible, given a sufficiently high motivation to investigate the matter, to actually come up with pretty reliable and efficient tecniques to be successful in the much more mundane area of life that is dating. Considering the inherent comicality of the situation of human mating it is perfectly plausible to assume that the one who pushes the ridiculousness to the limit will, in fact, be also the one to attain the greatest success in this particular endeavour - just as in the amoral sphere of politics it is the extraordinarily ruthless actor who will be triumphant in the end. Thus, "pick-up artists" can only be said to be misogynistic in the same sense that Machiavellians can be said to be cynical or unscrupulous: their behaviour merely reflects the most expedient way to have the firmest possible grip on certain realities of life. In this sense, life itself is misogynistic or inhuman.
    this is pretty much on the money.

    in every kind of human endeavor, we can become better at anything we choose to do. how to use one's increased abilities in any sphere is another question. it is what it is. there are good things about it, and there are bad things about it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanugo View Post
    Tea and padraig, why don't the two of you just piss off and start masturbating over the pictures of those bodybuilder type females you posted in the "Hot New Skool Babes" thread? You would love some good manhandling by those fine ladies, wouldn't you?
    petty plebs like these are so insecure that when ever someone shares their out of the ordinary aspirations or experiences, they just can not wait to try to shit on it, while high fiving eachother like highschool jocks trying to ridicule anyone who is a bit different.

  5. #35
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    is the Machiavellian way of looking at life extremely sad and depressing? yes i think it is. but we live in a system of subjugation, power, and injustice, which is the real underlying sad and depressing thing. and Machiavellians are in a way simply realistic about it.

    i personally do not choose to spend most of my energies on figuring out how to thrive in the system, be it climbing the corporate ladder or mastering the dating game, but it is not for me to judge those who do choose to excel in whatever.

    and i believe that one attains universal truths and reach higher spiritual levels when they work on something, anything, diligently enough over the years and become adept, be it sound sculpture or tantra.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by comelately View Post
    ....and I'm part of an Ongoing Tantric ecstatic dance group in the Netherlands, so my powers will only increase.
    I don't mean to get involved in this argument (I don't anywhere enough about the subject, I've never 'picked up' a girl.....)

    but this must be one of the most hilarious statements i have ever read




    anyway, i generally find that if i am very nice to everyone, i feel good about myself for being such a good person, and being nice is often very helpful

  7. #37
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    Padraig and I are 'plebs' for not taking seriously the online boasts of someone apparently dedicated to becoming a sort of new-age sexual Ubermensch through participation in 'ongoing tantric ecstatic dance'?* Chairman Zhao lays down the law once again. But then, anything that helps you on your unique personal path of spiritual empowerment towards Ultimate Truth must be pursued at all costs!

    *wasn't there a Mike Myers film about that a few years back?

    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 27-09-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    and i believe that one attains universal truths and reach higher spiritual levels when they work on something, anything, diligently enough over the years and become adept, be it sound sculpture or tantra.
    Yeah, being able to pull birds whenever you want. Or attaining higher spiritual truths, as I like to call it.

    Everytime I think you couldn't possibly sink further into self-parody, you somehow prove me wrong...
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  9. #39

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    christ on a bike. there are a couple of people who i think for me will now enduringly be associated with a mental image strongly resembling mystery and style up there.

    if you think it's desirable to subversively manipulate people into having sex with you, then you are a rather depressing excuse for a human! it's quite simple. and don't tell me that all personal interactions are based on forms of manipulation, because that would make you a rather depressing excuse for a human.

    paidraig and tea, i'm happily with you plebs

  10. #40
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    I think Ianugo makes an interesting point though.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    I think Ianugo makes an interesting point though.
    which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by lanugo View Post
    Thus, "pick-up artists" can only be said to be misogynistic in the same sense that Machiavellians can be said to be cynical or unscrupulous: their behaviour merely reflects the most expedient way to have the firmest possible grip on certain realities of life. In this sense, life itself is misogynistic or inhuman.
    this one? i suppose it is interesting, in the sense of being unusually craven and intellectually lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by lanugo View Post
    This being said, Tea and padraig, why don't the two of you just piss off and start masturbating over the pictures of those bodybuilder type females you posted in the "Hot New Skool Babes" thread? You would love some good manhandling by those fine ladies, wouldn't you?
    or is it this witty and thoughtful riposte?
    Last edited by bobbin; 27-09-2010 at 06:11 PM.

  12. #42
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    Ha - no, just this:

    "If Machiavelli gives sound and universally applicable advice in Il Principe on how to aquire, increase and retain power by exploiting human weaknesses, I don't see why it shouldn't be equally possible, given a sufficiently high motivation to investigate the matter, to actually come up with pretty reliable and efficient tecniques to be successful in the much more mundane area of life that is dating."

    It would be a heartless exercise, but I agree with his point - people are easily swayed by manipulation, alas. I think everyone's had that experience of being 'wowed' by someone, and then afterwards regretting having been so easily swayed for what, in retrospect, seem pretty shaky reasons. Hence, room for manipulation.

    Oh shit, just me?

    Not advocating manipulation at all, just that I can see how systematic manipulation would be possible.

  13. #43
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    i'm an old married dude, so wtf do i know about this but...my question is: when all is said and done, what do the pick-up artists actually have to show for themselves?

    my guess is they get turned down a lot more often than they admit, but even if they do succeed in getting laid, what have they actually gained? a fun hour (or few minutes, as the case may be)? they certainly don't end up with any genuine friends, because most people see them as blatant manipulators/users.

    yes, i have no doubt that they sometimes attain their "goal." it's just that their goal is one that doesn't have any real value.

  14. #44
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    For the record, I think it'd be pretty cool to have the confidence to chat up any woman you liked the look of - and have a good chance of success, I mean - and if you picked up some tips from a book, so what? It's not even necessarily mysogynistic either, that all depends on why you're really doing it and your attitude to women generally. And if you can show a girl a good time in the sack, so much the better.

    What makes me alternately laugh and cringe is the idea of there being this whole "community" dedicated purely to pulling and the elevation of it from something completely normal and worldly, that almost everyone does at least sometimes, into some kind of mystical personal-growth quest. All this talk of "enabling" and "empowering" (to say nothing of zhao's marvelous "attaining higher spiritual levels", as if life is some sort of karmic video game with power-ups to collect and bosses to defeat) is vaguely new-agey and self-helpy while at the same time oddly corporate-sounding; I like to think of this combination as 'assholistic'. It just puts me in mind of 'workshops' where name-badged delegates watch PowerPoint presentations and then discuss things in a circle while some goon writes random words on a flipchart.

    For a good example of why the "community" aspect makes my skin crawl, consider:

    Quote Originally Posted by comelately
    We got into the sex club because my ladyfriend's parents are members.
    Now maybe this just makes me a laughable old-fashioned prude, but if I had to choose between that^ and lifelong celibacy, I'd start to think seriously about the latter...I mean a 'sex club', seriously? To say nothing of one of which your partner's (or your own!) parents are members...it just makes the whole thing sound about as sexy as a bridge club or knitting circle. "Sorry, I'd love to come out for a pint after work, but I've got Sex Club tonight." Tell me there is something just a *bit* weird about that sentence.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 27-09-2010 at 09:31 PM.
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  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    It would be a heartless exercise, but I agree with his point - people are easily swayed by manipulation, alas. I think everyone's had that experience of being 'wowed' by someone, and then afterwards regretting having been so easily swayed for what, in retrospect, seem pretty shaky reasons. Hence, room for manipulation.

    Oh shit, just me?

    Not advocating manipulation at all, just that I can see how systematic manipulation would be possible.
    I don't think anyone doubts that people can be manipulated. Con artists, politicians, sect leaders, a lot of people do it. I think Mr. Tea, padraig etc. just oppose the idea that in the case of PUAs it's an act of self-improvement. Just because the human psyche has ways to exploit it, it doesn't mean it's natural and ok to do so.
    Ironically beginning PUAs are manipulated the same way as they manipulate by letting them feel bad about themselves ("hey, you're just an average frustrated chump"), taking their money for books, seminars, dvds etc. and then reinforcing the mechanisms that let them feel bad in the first place (number of sex partners = self worth).

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