The Game - Neil Strauss

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
...was pretty helpful

Yeah, but all that has behind it is decades of rigorous, peer-reviewed medical and scientific evidence. Which, in my all-important personal opinion, is pretty flimsy when weighed up against this video by some guy I saw once on YouTube a couple of years ago. He was pretty persuasive, plus he's a lone maverick voice-in-the-wilderness and therefore almost certainly correct.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
AIDS need to be questioned for sure. perhaps not the existence of the epidemic (i differ somewhat to lanugo), but for sure the official story of what it is, what it does, and its (lack of) cures.

but lets start up that thread again if you want to go there. and maybe try to keep this one on topic?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Darwinian evolution most CERTAINLY needs to be questioned. many many aspects of his work, and their various interpretations, has been continually questioned since its publication by the scientific community, and to fruitful results.

OK, fruitful results have come from 'questioning' the theory in the sense of 'continually refining and extending it in the light of new scientific evidence'. The 'questioning' I was referring to was the kind that suggests that the entire theory is wrong from top to bottom because of a deep-seated belief in literal divine creation.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
OK, fruitful results have come from 'questioning' the theory in the sense of 'continually refining and extending it in the light of new scientific evidence'. The 'questioning' I was referring to was the kind that suggests that the entire theory is wrong from top to bottom because of a deep-seated belief in literal divine creation.

that's exactly what i'm saying about AIDS fucktard.
 
D

droid

Guest
argpyr.jpg
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
on this PUA thing, the sexist and misogynistic dimensions involved is very much apparent and obvious to all. and here is someone actually involved in this stuff, who is saying that it is not necessarily all about sexism and misogyny, and that there are other dimensions which he claims are beneficial to his personal growth, and perhaps to others as well.

this is interesting. to me and maybe others. and i would like to read what he has to say without miserable fucks like you and padraig acting like dismissive self-righteous pricks from the get go. it's boring: "oh here is an easy target for us to make fun of, and we can act like the moral authority and come down on this guy, because it's safe and easy to attack someone who is into The Game".

it's much too easy to reduce these guys to the lowest stereotype image, and apparently that's all you are interested in doing. and this is not productive in the least. not to mention fucking ANNOYING.

seriously though, Tea and Padraig, go fuck yourself with your constant condescension and banal dismissal of other view points. this thread would be a lot better without it.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
that's exactly what i'm saying about AIDS fucktard.

Then why quote at length people who have been explicitly denying that HIV causes AIDS when you started that thread, oh wise one? You weren't saying 'here is a new and interesting piece of research that refines or expands our knowledge of HIV/AIDS', you were giving a platform to irresponsible idiots promoting the ludicrous idea that AIDS is caused by the drugs given to HIV carriers, rather than the virus itself. This isn't 'refining' anything, it's turning established knowledge on its head and is demonstrably untrue.

And don't try and hide behind some pathetic "devil's advocate" stance, either. There is nothing to advocate here. It's like someone saying "well maybe we should at least listen to the Holocaust-deniers, because while-I-don't-agree-with-them-exactly-of-course, it could stimulate interesting debate". What is there to debate? Either the fucking thing happened, or it didn't. This might sound like a hysterical analogy, but misinformation about HIV - whether from AIDS denialism or Catholic anti-condom propaganda - may well already have killed millions of people.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
and here is someone actually involved in this stuff, who is saying that it is not necessarily all about sexism and misogyny

if you'll pay even a bit of attention you'll notice we've managed to find some at least semi-common ground with the individual in question and have a bit of reasonably civil discourse (albeit while retaining our skepticism), granted I realize that's not conducive to your temper tantrums

self-righteous pricks...we can act like the moral authority

remind you of anyone you know? say...a certain hip Berlin graphic designer/DJ (Kode9 approved!) with a "colonial bone to pick" and a hard-on for tossing out ill-considered, hollow moral condemnations by the bucketful? the irony, again, being that the whole PUA thing couldn't possibly be more Western (in the zhao non-approving of sense) what its liberal borrowings from sociobio and evo psych, its essentially industrial assembly line approach to dating, its whole classic self-help approach, and so on.

of course if you did actually want to learn more about the PUA thing there are only, what, a whole mess of websites devoted specifically and only to that
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Then why quote at length people who have been explicitly denying that HIV causes AIDS when you started that thread, oh wise one? You weren't saying 'here is a new and interesting piece of research that refines or expands our knowledge of HIV/AIDS', you were giving a platform to irresponsible idiots promoting the ludicrous idea that AIDS is caused by the drugs given to HIV carriers, rather than the virus itself. This isn't 'refining' anything, it's turning established knowledge on its head and is demonstrably untrue.

And don't try and hide behind some pathetic "devil's advocate" stance, either. There is nothing to advocate here. It's like someone saying "well maybe we should at least listen to the Holocaust-deniers, because while-I-don't-agree-with-them-exactly-of-course, it could stimulate interesting debate". What is there to debate? Either the fucking thing happened, or it didn't. This might sound like a hysterical analogy, but misinformation about HIV may well already have killed more people than the death camps.

i see that you looked hard and long for a quote from me remotely resembling denial... better luck next time :)

because some information brought up by the deniers in the case of AIDS is valuable, involving demonstrable truths which are at complete odds with the official story.

as much as you love to compare everything to the holocaust, not everything in the world is as cut and dry as "did or did not happen", whether you like it or not, Tea.
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
it's much too easy to reduce these guys to the lowest stereotype image, and apparently that's all you are interested in doing. and this is not productive in the least. not to mention fucking ANNOYING.

But how is this any different from your recent thread slagging off hipster DJs?

I think this thread has been pretty good on the whole and whilst polar opposites have emerged, quite a few people on both sides have written things about relationships and dating which have been very interesting.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
i see that you looked hard and long for a quote from me remotely resembling denial... better luck next time :)

Sigh...where did I accuse you, personally, of AIDS denialism? I didn't. I said you were giving a platform to AIDS deniers and, by darkly hinting that the "official story" of AIDS "needs to be questioned", implicitly supporting them. Why do you have such a problem with the official HIV-causes-AIDS line, and so much time for people who refute it, if at least a teeny part of you doesn't thrill to the thought that maybe HIV doesn't cause AIDS? {Science/the Establishment/The West} 0 - 1 {internet conspiracy pundits/Kung-Fu masters}! Wa-hey! :cool:

because some information brought up by the deniers in the case of AIDS is valuable, involving demonstrable truths which are at complete odds with the official story.

O RLY. Such as? Nomad (edit: and padraig, in fairness) answered all that pretty comprehensively in the AIDS thread, I can't be arsed to go back and quote it all.

as much as you love to compare everything to the holocaust, not everything in the world is as cut and dry as "did or did not happen", whether you like it or not, Tea.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Maybe the Holocaust kind-of happened.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
look bros I'm sorry I brought up AIDS. let's take it back to that thread or a new AIDS thread tho if dudes wanna talk about it (my views in short remain pretty much the same, I'll refrain from saying more in the interest of getting back O/T, you can probably guess them anyway).
 

john eden

male pale and stale
i see that you looked hard and long for a quote from me remotely resembling denial... better luck next time :)

because some information brought up by the deniers in the case of AIDS is valuable, involving demonstrable truths which are at complete odds with the official story.

Surely this is what science is all about - questioning?

I don't really see the need for a seperate, youtube-based denialist community when groundbreaking research that overturns the paradigm can appear in peer reviewed scientific journals?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Fair point padraig.

Is this PUA stuff the male equivalent of "the rules" or "men are from mars / women are from venus" etc?

Or are both completely degraded versions of hetero maleness and femaleness?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"I don't equate objectification with hatred as easily as you, but obviously you have a point."
Fair enough, maybe hatred is the wrong phrase but I find something equally unpleasant about reducing people to number-rated objects that aren't even worth hating.

"I think you will find that the numbers really aren't used that much anymore. There's an idea in some paradigms that you have to do certain things differently with '9s and 10s', but there is actually more involved in being a '9 or 10' than looks anyway and it has more to with one's perception of her value as perceived by other people than your personal 'objectification'"
Ah ok, I'm just going on what I read in the book really - in that it's quite common for someone to say something along the lines of "Oh my God, a nine!" as some big-titted blonde walks in to the bar.

"That still leaves you with stuff like HBBigTits, which is not unproblematic"
What's that, Hard Body Bit Tits?

"but night clubs are about sex and are going to be about objectification to one extent or another. As I said over a year ago, it wasn't all shamanic dance spaces in Leicester Square prior to 5 years ago."
And music and dancing. And some people even take drugs I've heard.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think it's pointless to try and pretend that everyone doesn't objectify other people at least sometimes and at least to a certain extent, or that recognising this makes you a terrible person. Go to a party, bar, club, beach or whatever and there will be some people of the appropriate sex you find drop-dead gorgeous, some you can maybe imagine gettin' wid under the right circumstances and some you find frankly unattractive (assuming you're neither asexual nor so undiscriminating that you'd happily screw pretty much anything with a pulse). Assigning numerical grades seems objectionable simply because it makes the whole thing that much more explicit.

(There's another problem I have with it, namely: how is the scale calibrated? Is it linear or logarithmic? Is a '10' only 1/9th more attractive than a '9', or twice, or ten times as attractive? Maybe it's an absolute scale, and a '10' represents a theoretically perfect beauty? Is a '5' defined as the population average?

I propose:

hotness quotient H = log10(P/A)

where P = how much you'd like to shag the person in question
and A = how much you'd like to shag the statistically average person of the appropriate sex

which is a relative scale in that it is automatically calibrated to your inherent background horniness. It has the advantage that it ranges from +inf to -inf and so can be used to grade anyone of arbitrary attractiveness or repulsiveness. 'Hot' people are +ve, 'unhot' people are -ve and someone who's exactly average rates as a 0.

The guy who does xkcd.com should do a cartoon about this - probably has done, in fact...)
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
lol. times D (desperation quotient) and I (inebriation level)

hotness quotient H = log10(P/A) X D X I​

where P = how much you'd like to shag the person in question
and A = how much you'd like to shag the statistically average person of the appropriate sex
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Ha, yeah, zhao and I can clearly agree on one thing - H depends very sensitively on blood alcohol level. Desperation is built into A, though - it increases with the length of time since you last got laid, effectively reducing your lower hotness threshold for potential partners.

Corpsey: don't worry, maybe they were just estimating the size of your knob?
 
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D

droid

Guest
Ha, yeah, zhao and I can clearly agree on one thing - H depends very sensitively on blood alcohol level.

Corpsey: don't worry, maybe they were just estimating the size of your knob?

Or your IQ?
 
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