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Thread: Lovecraft and atheism

  1. #16
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    Wasn't Mark Fisher into some idea of 'atheist Christianity', whatever that was? Or have I made that up?

    The stuff in the grapejuice post about Lovecraft as a wizard, an initiate, a render-of-veils and crosser-of-thresholds is appealing but I don't think there's anything in his writing (including private letters) to challenge the idea that he really stuck to the materialist worldview he professed. The hideous entities he wrote about were inspired mainly by the terrible nightmares he suffered as a child, and I think the vast alien abysses of non-space they came from are metaphors for how much of an alien he felt himself to be in vulgar, capitalist, multi-ethnic, modern America.
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  2. #17
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    but I don't think there's anything in his writing (including private letters) to challenge the idea that he really stuck to the materialist worldview he professed.
    znore disagrees and presents his evidence in the essay

  3. #18
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    As you can probably guess I'm not sympathetic to your interpretation. I don't think that is how writing usually works. I'm not remotely sympathetic to Marks interpretation either. But of course I believe in all sorts of funny things.

  4. #19
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    I really don't think that as a writer you sit there at your desk absently sucking on your biro going
    "I feel terribly alienated from contemporary soceity... what might a good metaphor for that be... I know... Aliens!"

  5. #20
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    You have to remember Lovecraft is objectively rubbish. It's very very bad writing.

  6. #21
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    But for whatever reason it's potent rubbish, equally capable of enflaming the imaginations of magicians (Kenneth Grant) philosophers(Deleuze) and Pop Stars (Mark E Smith). If you've just read znores essay why not read the silver key story he's referring to?

  7. #22
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    It's part 3 or 4 of series. Read part 1 first. It will only take ten or 15 minutes

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  9. #23
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    http://groupnameforgrapejuice.blogsp...es-of.html?m=1


    "It all started this time with two strange books, widely different and seemingly unrelated, both containing pivotal references to an even stranger third book.

    The first two books are A Thousand Plateaus by Gilles Deleuze and Félix Guattari, and True Hallucinations by Terence McKenna. Each, somewhat surprisingly, give significant mention to H.P. Lovecraft’s weird fiction story, Through the Gates of the Silver Key. The three, taken as a set, illuminate one another. Each is a gate unlocked by the same key, gates beyond space and time and comprehension."

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  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    I really don't think that as a writer you sit there at your desk absently sucking on your biro going
    "I feel terribly alienated from contemporary soceity... what might a good metaphor for that be... I know... Aliens!"
    Yes thank you I do realise it's not quite as literal and direct a process as that.
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  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    As someone who's read one Lovecraft story, where's the best place to start? The one I read was about some dude trapped in a submarine and finding a temple at the bottom of the ocean and was pretty good, but nothing spectacular.
    'The Colour out of Space' is by far and away his best, but the disparity between and his other stories might make the rest seem like a let-down if you read it next, I dunno.

    'At the Mountains of Madness' and 'The Shadow out of Time' are really well developed sci-fi stories, and absolutely key in the development of the modern 'ancient aliens' mythology. 'The Haunter in the Dark' is a nice effective supernatural horror story without much in the way of links to his wider mythos, and 'The Case of Charles Dexter Ward' is a quite effective short novel - catch a decent modern adaptation of it here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06spb8w

    Plus the 'Silver Key' stories mentioned in the podcast.

    Luka's over-egging how bad HPL was as a writer. Sure, it's over-blown and he doesn't really do characters as such, but I think his poverty as a writer is overstated. Some of his passages are actually genuinely affecting.
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  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    As you can probably guess I'm not sympathetic to your interpretation. I don't think that is how writing usually works. I'm not remotely sympathetic to Marks interpretation either. But of course I believe in all sorts of funny things.
    It's not really 'my' interpretation, it's the usual view of HPL among people who've widely read him and know a bit about him as a person. It's shared by S. T. Joshi, for example, who probably knows more about Lovecraft than anyone else. Houellebecq too, I think (Mark quotes him in the first post).
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  15. #27
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    I don't think it holds water but more importantly it's boring and the boring answer is always the wrong answer. A good rule of thumb is, whatever Holluebeq says, think the opposite.

  16. #28
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    His book on Lovecraft is pretty insightful, I thought - but if you hate Lovecraft as a writer, have no interest in him as a person and only like the wacky hyperspace stuff inasmuch as it can be linked to D&G, LSD, Blake, Joyce and all the other stuff you like, I imagine it doesn't hold much appeal, so fair enough.
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  17. #29
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    I like the stories. I said they're rubbish not that I don't like them.

  18. #30
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    Ha, you know I had a feeling you'd say that.
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