Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Yeah of course, but I just mean that I can see that mixing would retain part of its appeal even if it wasn't technically challenging anymore.
Personally I prefer to practice, or at least I would if my decks weren't fucked
Vinyl dying (for DJ's)
- Thread starter Phaedo
- Start date
Yeah of course, but I just mean that I can see that mixing would retain part of its appeal even if it wasn't technically challenging anymore.
Personally I prefer to practice, or at least I would if my decks weren't fucked
well what are the criteria of a good dj set. let's take lack of beat matching fuck ups as a given. whatever qualities we now chose aside from that - they can will all be creative & musical. We can agree that these are the important aspects of a music experience . so these are now the criteria which elevates one dj from the others. Im not seeing a problem here.
I suppose, as a radical example, we could say, what if everyone instantly download could technical excellence in an instrument. Would music turn to shit? Well, technical showmanship would be rendered meaningless, so the criteria for greatness would be excellence in ideation, idea-realization, arrangement, musical content, as in, the stuff that counts.
okay its an odd example and there would be a temporary bukkake phase in awful solos.
to speak personally , i spent 3-5 hours a day practicing djing as a teen, that hardwon ability meant I could impress other djs somewhat, beatmatch okish without headphones etc. Now I use beatmatching software, and its like having an arm caste removed. its now about the tunes.
ableton itself engenders long, linear blends, its really not great for one and two djing. but with traktor & serato you can do all the rough choppage that people asscociate with vinyl mixing, plus (with traktor) the real beauty of harmonic key mixing.
but yeh, the analog artifcats of vinyl, the pops, the needle drops after the rewind, even the occasional pitch waver.. they're lovely. and of course i love seeing Ez, or ben for that matter, do things that i simply couldn't.
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I don't use any of them, but can ppl stop grouping serato and ableton sets together? you still need to beatmatch with serato the same way you do with vinyl or CDs - the only aid (as far as i know) is the visual waveform, and a lot of ppl don't even look at that.
for me a big problem is that when ppl use software like ableton it comes thru one channel on the mixer, so the whole thing is levelled off. when you're using 2 channels (as you would with vinyl or serato) there's much more natural dynamic to it - natural louder and quiter moments, etc.
Also it's just a bit safe and lame. zero risk factor and that comes thru in the music. 've heard some killer ableton sets but I don't find them as fun to experience as a vinyl or cdj set.
for me a big problem is that when ppl use software like ableton it comes thru one channel on the mixer, so the whole thing is levelled off. when you're using 2 channels (as you would with vinyl or serato) there's much more natural dynamic to it - natural louder and quiter moments, etc.
Also it's just a bit safe and lame. zero risk factor and that comes thru in the music. 've heard some killer ableton sets but I don't find them as fun to experience as a vinyl or cdj set.
@Alfons, yes you just connect how you would serato usually but without the extra vinyl cables, then the actual serato software has a 'THRU' button that send's the vinyl signal through. Also I find the SL3 box sounds alot punchier than the others
Edit* don't know about the power supply thing? Pretty sure it stays on whether the laptop is off or not (haven't tried) but it does come with a charger so I think you may need to plug it in.
Has anybody used SL4 yet? edit* don't think it's out yet
Edit* don't know about the power supply thing? Pretty sure it stays on whether the laptop is off or not (haven't tried) but it does come with a charger so I think you may need to plug it in.
Has anybody used SL4 yet? edit* don't think it's out yet
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Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
Agreed. There may be ways that using Serato is easier than using vinyl turntables on their own, but it def doesn't 'do it all for you'.
You need the external power supply plugged into the box to get sound via the thru's without it plugged into the computer (with the SL-1 anyway).
For me as well Serato is the best go-between option. Th only downside again is that you are reliant on venues looking after their technics
I think a lot of times with Ableton, especially when DJs are using an APC or similar controller, the sets all have this similar sound that I think sucks. Especially when people overuse the pads, if they have all their tracks cut up into 8 bar loops and such. It's all glitchy and robotic, and ableton already sounds pretty robotic. I really hate that glitch hop sound though, it's the worst.
I myself on the other hand, am totally not a "real DJ" and use Traktor. With no midi controller or anything, and I only use a soundcard and a dj mixer when I can borrow one. I had always wanted to learn how to DJ, but I've been so fucking broke in the last few years that I could never afford to buy turntables and Serato. My friend taught me how to beat match with vinyl, but since I don't have my own tables to practice on, Traktor is good for me because I can just fuck around on my couch, and I love that. It's a lot of fun, and I don't see myself shelling out 500 bucks for some 1200s, 600-800 bucks for a stupid fucking plastic box aka serato box, 200 more for needles, ect even if I did have the money just to look like a "real dj". Mad respect for the "real DJs" though, unless they play bullshit music, then fuck them. That whole idea that "now everyone can be a DJ" obviously has it's pros and cons, because on the one hand you have retards who got their moms to buy them serato and play whole sets of really obvious shit they found on blogs, and on the other hand people who actually have killer taste, huge collections, and dope ideas but no money can spin too.
I myself on the other hand, am totally not a "real DJ" and use Traktor. With no midi controller or anything, and I only use a soundcard and a dj mixer when I can borrow one. I had always wanted to learn how to DJ, but I've been so fucking broke in the last few years that I could never afford to buy turntables and Serato. My friend taught me how to beat match with vinyl, but since I don't have my own tables to practice on, Traktor is good for me because I can just fuck around on my couch, and I love that. It's a lot of fun, and I don't see myself shelling out 500 bucks for some 1200s, 600-800 bucks for a stupid fucking plastic box aka serato box, 200 more for needles, ect even if I did have the money just to look like a "real dj". Mad respect for the "real DJs" though, unless they play bullshit music, then fuck them. That whole idea that "now everyone can be a DJ" obviously has it's pros and cons, because on the one hand you have retards who got their moms to buy them serato and play whole sets of really obvious shit they found on blogs, and on the other hand people who actually have killer taste, huge collections, and dope ideas but no money can spin too.
I've been working on getting a live set together and this is the biggest problem I've faced - its a fine line between having some room for improvisation in preprepared tunes, and ending up on a self-gratifying 5 minute jam session between tunes just to avoid the 'looks like he's checking his emails' jibes
I've gone back to vinyl
My main motivation for playing CD's was that a lot of places I've played at don't have a vinyl set up. But I find these nights to be mainly a chore anyway so if a promoter has a good vinyl set up I know they care and everything will be better
My main motivation for playing CD's was that a lot of places I've played at don't have a vinyl set up. But I find these nights to be mainly a chore anyway so if a promoter has a good vinyl set up I know they care and everything will be better
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I had CDJ's then sold them for 1210's.
I didnt really learn how to mix properly either before I moved to vinyl cus I always relied on the BPM counter etc and didnt use my ears. If I ever found myself in a situation where I was DJing Id cut dubs.
In fact I saw Lurka recently at a rave and he played an all vinyl/dubplate set, pretty sure he did anyway.
I didnt really learn how to mix properly either before I moved to vinyl cus I always relied on the BPM counter etc and didnt use my ears. If I ever found myself in a situation where I was DJing Id cut dubs.
In fact I saw Lurka recently at a rave and he played an all vinyl/dubplate set, pretty sure he did anyway.
jackjambie
Voodoo Priest
i dunno, as soon as I can get my head round mixing cds and vinyl all together i think i'll be fine. nothing lost then (as I'll just keep dipping in to my record collection for all the old shit on vinyl) but lots of / nearly the whole of underground music that I'm in to gained (as I now see it) via cd (rag & bone's now digital, all of bassline is, off me nut is, the best ukfunky and grime stuff is, juke / footwork is etc). and i don't have to sit staring at any computer screens while i'm djing (serato, traktor etc), which i much prefer. that's just personal preference though. i've seen kids tear it up on pc controllers (VERY occasionally and in smaller venues...). all about just playing the right stuff!
i still like playing old stuff, and though i stopped for a bit i am buying old vinyl again (grime, ardkore etc shit i missed out on first time round). some of it is still too obscure to have leaked on to the net, and like dave was saying with that soul dj on serato you wouldn't wanna see someone doing an old skool 03-08 UK underground set, say (while vinyl was still the norm), and not be wheeling up with a mad bagga vinyl that they're dead chuffed with. part of the whole vibe / thing ennit.
not worth becoming an old skool dj overnight really though, just for the sake of vinyl. never that. cds are fine, and nearly all of the best new stuff that I wanna play is digital now.
dubs are obviously all good, but the weight's gone from em I think. not so much pressure to get them cut. i cut a few this year and pestering producers for wavs when they're dishing out mp3s left right and centre, i've found, is a long ting...
i still like playing old stuff, and though i stopped for a bit i am buying old vinyl again (grime, ardkore etc shit i missed out on first time round). some of it is still too obscure to have leaked on to the net, and like dave was saying with that soul dj on serato you wouldn't wanna see someone doing an old skool 03-08 UK underground set, say (while vinyl was still the norm), and not be wheeling up with a mad bagga vinyl that they're dead chuffed with. part of the whole vibe / thing ennit.
not worth becoming an old skool dj overnight really though, just for the sake of vinyl. never that. cds are fine, and nearly all of the best new stuff that I wanna play is digital now.
dubs are obviously all good, but the weight's gone from em I think. not so much pressure to get them cut. i cut a few this year and pestering producers for wavs when they're dishing out mp3s left right and centre, i've found, is a long ting...
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I hate to be the one to drop the R bomb (particularly cos I still buy vinyl myself), but being pro-vinyl / anti-digital is fairly classic rockism, isn't it? We've got the connection to an authentic past (ie reggae soundsystems), the emphasis on technical skill and work ethic, the curatorship / archivism, the focus on the record as a lasting artistic object rather than the tune as a fleeting experience, even a bizzare variant on the importance of real live performance...
spot on imo
bandshell
Grand High Witch
Lurks gets dubs cut farily regularly, wouldn't be surprised.
wise
bare BARE BONES
When I have my own house I cant wait to not care about how much space my records take up
Good luck with that, it's always an issue
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
i've had a digital/vinyl set up for the last couple of years now, just for djing in the house with and making mixes. I'd never go back to just vinyl again but have just realised I've never managed to put together a mix using mp3s that I've been happy with, whereas I used to be quite productive when I just had vinyl. Having a much bigger selection of tunes to choose from just makes me a lot less focussed...great for when you're just having a mess about, making it up as you go along though.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
totally agree about rough mixes, warts n all plz.
it was watching jeff mills @ ocean, hackney c.2003 that flipped me 180° from anti 4/4, dnb head to a total convert in one night. the room was lit dark red and loops from 2001: a space odyssey were being projected on to a huge screen behind him. it had that relentless vibe he does so well and he was tearing through records so fast that he had to throw them to the side to get the next one on in time. so fucking heavy and the kick pattern the klangers were creating only made it harder!
one of my best live musical experiences ever, long live jeff and long live the klang
it was watching jeff mills @ ocean, hackney c.2003 that flipped me 180° from anti 4/4, dnb head to a total convert in one night. the room was lit dark red and loops from 2001: a space odyssey were being projected on to a huge screen behind him. it had that relentless vibe he does so well and he was tearing through records so fast that he had to throw them to the side to get the next one on in time. so fucking heavy and the kick pattern the klangers were creating only made it harder!
one of my best live musical experiences ever, long live jeff and long live the klang