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Thread: salute tottenham

  1. #31
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    Twitter is kindof amazing for this, I've not understood it before.

    Brixton, Enfield, Dalston, Walthamstow, Palmers Grn, Ponders End, Earlsfield and Westfield so far rumours and confirmed stuff.

  2. #32
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    when something like this happens and get talked about on dissensus i am reminded of who i am, and who i am with.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    the sense i get from highness, gumdrops and tea is you should all just behave yourself like responsible adults when i think that its probably fair to say there is a war being waged against the people of the world. in some sense there is a war on and doing as your told is probably not the best way to respond to a situation like that.
    What, by waging war on their own community? Yeah, great, that'll show 'em.

    And you can fuck off with this patronising "flat-footed, dull-witted" bollocks, as if getting a hard-on for a bunch of kids nicking phones and trainers makes you this far-out radical intellectual.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 08-08-2011 at 09:28 AM.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  4. #34
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    im not saying dont protest cos it will hurt tourism, im saying dont loot and burn places in your own backyard. its quite a big difference luka. it might look cool in a 'ruin porn' flickr slideshow but its not so great to live in. i know ppl that own small businesses and this is the sort of shit that they shouldnt have to put up with. from a wider perspective, yeah this kind of thing makes headlines and gets peoples attention to the fact that people are angry. but at the end of the day the kids looting clothes shops for bags of g star gear werent likely doing it cos they wanted to make a stand for justice.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistersloane View Post
    Twitter is kindof amazing for this, I've not understood it before.

    Brixton, Enfield, Dalston, Walthamstow, Palmers Grn, Ponders End, Earlsfield and Westfield so far rumours and confirmed stuff.
    Yeah, twitter's by far the best way to follow something like this. But\ inevitably there was so much rumour to separate from the fact. Also it's often just the same tweet retweeted over and over.

    Apparently my local Argos got trashed last night so will check it out on my way to work for which I am late. Argos is a dumb place to trash, cos all the stock is hidden away at the back.

  6. #36
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    maybe the looters all lined up and got a numbered ticket.

  7. #37
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    now this makes a bit more sense -
    http://twitpic.com/62q1p0

  8. #38
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    surprised all you armchair revolutionaries arent advocating they go and burn and loot more well off areas instead. surely that would make more sense. but then i suppose theres only so many delis and cake shops you can get stuff from.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hucks View Post
    Yeah, twitter's by far the best way to follow something like this. But\ inevitably there was so much rumour to separate from the fact. Also it's often just the same tweet retweeted over and over.
    .
    There was a media blackout while it was going on - NOTHING on BBC, Sky, Guardian shut down from 12.58 - the only way you could find out information was through twitter. LBC and 5live both had phone ins going on with people phoning in what was happening but both were so reactionary it was funny.

  10. #40
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    peoples reactions to this sort of thing are endlessly fascinating.

  11. #41
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    1. From what I hear, Duggan was shot 4 times whilst lying on the ground after being restrained. The injured cop was miraculously saved as the bullet fired at him hit his radio/bible/piece of the true cross and was released from hospital after 24 hrs, and he was apparently shot by a police bullet.

    Obviously the Police are not to be believed about pretty much everything.

    2. I cant quite predict exactly what Luka is going to say on any topic, but I can usually guarantee that it will be stupid, ill-considered and needlessly personalised.
    Last edited by droid; 08-08-2011 at 11:02 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    1. From what I hear, Duggan was shot 4 times whilst lying on the ground after being restrained. The injured cop was miraculously saved as the bullet fired at him hit his radio/bible/piece of the true cross and was released from hospital after 24 hrs, and he was apparently shot by a police bullet.

    Obviously the Police are not to be believed about pretty much everything.

    2. I cant quite predict exactly what Luka is going to say on any topic, but I can usually guarantee that it will be stupid, ill-considered and needlessly personalised.
    Where's the info about 4 shots droid? I can only find people saying two.

  13. #43
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    the cause is the same issue thats been deeply entrenched in the black community for decades - police brutality. the later events, im not so sure about. ive heard its cos a 16 yr old was hit by police but this is the sort of thing that is never going away and just boils over every so often and will continue to do so as long as this never changes. but im still divided on whether the unfocused nature of the rioters' targets means we can really look at burning footlocker and raiding H&M as political rage. i think like most riots its just anger or hormones pouring over, kids just angry and needing to unleash it somewhere/somehow.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumdrops View Post
    the cause is the same issue thats been deeply entrenched in the black community for decades - police brutality. the later events, im not so sure about. ive heard its cos a 16 yr old was hit by police but this is the sort of thing that is never going away and just boils over every so often and will continue to do so as long as this never changes. but im still divided on whether the unfocused nature of the rioters' targets means we can really look at burning footlocker and raiding H&M as political rage. i think like most riots its just anger or hormones pouring over, kids just angry and needing to unleash it somewhere/somehow.
    I think concentrating on exact cause-and-effect mechanisms is a bit of a red herring , agreed. There was a trigger (the Duggan murder) which brought to the fore lots of angry associations in many people's minds - police brutality, everyday racism/classism, poverty, lack of opportunity, lack of voice etc etc etc - which itself became a force dislocated from the original trigger.

    I agree with what you've said, but where is the line between 'political rage' and just pure social anger? i dont' think there IS any clear line outside the imagination oof the media... just as students in December weren't ONLY going on the demo out of 'political rage', but also for a whole range of other reaons, some social, some to do with personal psychology.

    Difference in reporting this time around is that people ove rthe weekend weren't given the luxury of having personal, complex psychologies, as most weren't middle class - instead they were just labelled 'scum'. I think discourse and rhetoric becomes just as important as facts in cases like this.

    Edit: In a late capitalist society that values profit creation over people and entrenches class divides every day, violence enacted against uber-capitalist chains (it's a pity small businesses were targetted too, which is imo unforgivable) becomes an act of political protest, perhaps? Discuss....
    Last edited by baboon2004; 08-08-2011 at 12:22 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    1. From what I hear, Duggan was shot 4 times whilst lying on the ground after being restrained. The injured cop was miraculously saved as the bullet fired at him hit his radio/bible/piece of the true cross and was released from hospital after 24 hrs, and he was apparently shot by a police bullet.

    Obviously the Police are not to be believed about pretty much everything.
    The IPPC made a point of stating that

    "Speculation that Mark Duggan was ‘assassinated’ in an execution style involving a number of shots to the head are categorically untrue. Following the formal identification of the body Mr Duggan’s family know that this is not the case and I would ask anyone reporting this to be aware of its inaccuracy and its inflammatory nature."

    http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr...statement.aspx

    I think this was one of the key messages circulating around rioters in Tottenham at the weekend.

    It's not even clear who the gun that was recovered at the scene belonged to. The one photo of Duggan in the press holding up "gun fingers" are paraded out again and again, unhelpfully.

    Another rumour is that the initial trouble commenced when police batoned a 16 year old girl who was protesting peacefully outside the cop shop.

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