4 Stars (or: The reviewing of art vs. the art of reviewing)

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Well, it's true with a lot of music as well. The point of reviews was a lot greater when it was hard to hear a given record before it got released because it wasn't on mainstream radio and you didn't have access to the internet."
Yeah, when you hear people talking about the days when they would wait by the radio on the day a song was released because it wasn't played before that day it sounds like a different world. Not necessarily a better one but I'm sure that it was true that there was more excitement about releases and probably songs in general.
Just picked films as an example because of the sheer cost of making a big film - it means that everything is exaggerated compared to an album. Plus I've often read film reviewers lamenting the lack of influence they have on film goers. Of course, the other side of the coin is when certain reviewers have the power to make or break a new release and I'm not exactly sure that's healthy either. Problem now is an influential reviewer with a bad review can probably squash a tiny indie film but have no effect on Transformers Seven so you arguably end up with the worst of both worlds.
One thing that's no-one has discussed is that romantic(?) idea of a review or critique as a kind of engagement with a work that increases the experience of the whole thing. Basically a review that regards as utterly unimportant how it affects sales but which can be enjoyed on its own terms at any point in time.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Basically a review that regards as utterly unimportant how it affects sales but which can be enjoyed on its own terms at any point in time.

All reiews should be like that. People who review stuff solely to boost its sales should give up now, because it's just fundamentally dishonest way of working. Your responsibility is to provide an engaging and informative read, to illuminate both the artist and, with luck, the wider culture. Anything else is promo.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
I get irritated when writers say they don't like reviewing bad records cos what's the point when there's so many good ones out. There's no point jumping on some obscure little no-hoper just to give it a kicking, but crap music is as much a part of what's going on as good music. and your good reviews only have any impact if you write some bad ones. as mentioned above, if everything is 4-star, then 4-star reviews are meaningless.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"All reiews should be like that. People who review stuff solely to boost its sales should give up now, because it's just fundamentally dishonest way of working. Your responsibility is to provide an engaging and informative read, to illuminate both the artist and, with luck, the wider culture. Anything else is promo."
Should be yeah. But wasn't the romantic view also that some things were actually below the level where it was possible to engage with them in this way and that they actually didn't qualify as art? That would probably be almost every mainstream film these days...
 

Leo

Well-known member
i miss the old days of gonzo journalism, back when lester bangs would rattle on and on and sometimes hardly even mention specific songs, but in the end you knew if the album was worth getting. that's probably back before many of you were even born, lol!

i wouldn't want only that type of reviewing, but i do miss the entertainment value of the more off-the-wall, often substance abuse-fueled bloviating when it's done well (and it's a horror when it's not done well).
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I've done a couple of reviews/pieces, working on a few at the moment too. It's really a case of writing about albums/artists that I'm really into, trying to communicate what it is I like about the music (especially as compared to what others DON'T like about it, or what I didn't like about it myself initially), trying to make it a bit funny in places and also - let's face it - making myself feel like a big man.

I find it very hard writing reviews, its a step-up from just giving my half-baked opinion on a forum/blog. I have a hard time cutting things down to reader-manageable levels. I've got loads of bad habits in my writing - too - many - dashes (and paragraphs), for example. But I dunno, I think I'm getting better at it... One thing about online reviewing is that you have to try and keep it short and sweet because of the nature of people's online reading habits (i.e. the majority probably won't read that much before clicking the next link).

I really like the hip-hop reviews David Drake (so many shrimp) does for Pitchfork. I'm deeply envious of his reviewing ability. Actually most of the rap reviews I've read on Pitchfork have been good.
 

Ulala

Awkward Woodward
Definitely true with films. When a super blockbuster comes out it is hyped and trailed for aaages in advance with merchandising and all kinds of tie-ins, it's Conan that covers the buses and advertising hoardings at the moment but it could be anything. It can get slated in every credible (whatever that means) publication going but millions will still go and see it - and probably leave feeling slightly disappointed though unsure why. There's obviously too much money involved to risk letting anything prevent this happening.

I think this is an important point, Rich. The (undoubtedly true) inference is that most people don't read reviews or do research or seek to obtain any other views, 'expert' or otherwise, before parting with their cash. Was it ever thus? Sadly, I think it was to some extent. I tend to fall back on videogames as an example, but there were about two million Playstation 2s in the UK in the machine's prime years. The Official Playstation 2 Magazine (a prime offender in giving things an uncritical, easy ride, but that's another point), had a circulation, I believe, of about 200,000. So that's just 10% of owners who are actively seeking information or guidance as to what to buy (and not getting good advice, but again, I'll leave that for now). My point, then, is that even allowing for other magazines and websites, comfortably more than 50% of people sought no further information and simply bought the games with the biggest advertising spend or the recognisable brand name on the box, or even just the ones they liked the sleeve art of, which, although it can occasionally pay dividends (I'll buy records from charity shops with cool sleeves for 50p) seems like madness with games costing £30 upwards. It's the same with films, plainly. I've definitely heard people at cinemas debating what film to watch and going solely by which actors appear, whether it's in a series they are familiar with, or if they've seen it advertised.

Are these people stupid for not reading reviews? Not necessarily. Or, rather, in absolute terms they probably are, yes, but are they unhappy with their choices? My guess is 'no'. If you've only ever seen blockbusters, or played Need For Speed, or read Dan Brown (for examples), and you enjoyed them, then you're unlikely to take notice of negative reviews anyway (or read the publications that give them), and the positive reviews ('4 Stars' - Baz Bamigboye, The Mail; '4 Stars' - Alex Zane, The Sun (sorry, more brackets, but how the hecking fuck did Zane get to be a film critic? Being a cunt to innocent people on Balls Of Steel and having a modern haircut is all you need these days, is it? Bicycling Christ...)) don't need to be read because they're already on the film poster, or book jacket (big stickers on the front of paperbacks, ugh) or whatever. If you've only got a narrow strata of experience in a given medium, you're much less likely to find fault - and as Rich says, even if you do "leave feeling slightly disappointed though unsure why", it must be difficult to pinpoint why you're disappointed, and so the same mistakes are made again.

That's why I like reviews, and why good reviews are important. I don't like wasting money and haven't the time to try everything out on the off chance I might enjoy it. The good reviewer (or reviews section, if all the writers are on point) is like the rich kid who's your best mate, who has the time and money to try everything, and tell you if that album starts well but tails off, or if that film is actually great, even if the director's last one was an abomination, or if that game looks lovely and plays well but spends all its time loading from disk, or whatever. Things you couldn't get just from the trailer or playing a demo or reading the plot synopsis on the inner jacket.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I used to read Terrorizer magazine avidly as a youngster but stopped when I noticed previews of upcoming albums were basically paid-for press releases, writing such as 'will divide opinions' and 'this band doesn't follow the rules' usually meant that the reviewer hated the album but was not allowed to express such opinions.

I know the (ex) editor of Terrorizer and I can't speak for him, but will say that that sort of stuff may have been the staff trying to get good stuff past the (idiot) owners, so they were trying to sell (i.e. review good stuff not shit) to their "market audience" as they'd been told to do, whilst knowing that the idea of a "market audience" is crap. See also early Bizarre, good journos trying to get interesting stuff past idiot editors. In the end we all lose.
 

bruno

est malade
I think this is an important point, Rich. The (undoubtedly true) inference is that most people don't read reviews or do research or seek to obtain any other views, 'expert' or otherwise, before parting with their cash. Was it ever thus? Sadly, I think it was to some extent.
isn't film different to other media in that it is a kind of experience? and mainstream films are this plus special effects plus iconic actors that people relate to or fancy, a promise of blinding experience. the trick is to make the product as visible as possible, reviews are a supplement to this and irrelevant unless the film is really catastrophic.
 

Damien

Well-known member
I know the (ex) editor of Terrorizer and I can't speak for him, but will say that that sort of stuff may have been the staff trying to get good stuff past the (idiot) owners, so they were trying to sell (i.e. review good stuff not shit) to their "market audience" as they'd been told to do, whilst knowing that the idea of a "market audience" is crap. See also early Bizarre, good journos trying to get interesting stuff past idiot editors. In the end we all lose.

I was pointed towards a recent Terrorizer article in which they previewed the most recent Morbid Angel album. Now this album is beyond terrible and has been universally panned.

In this preview they gave glowing praise and made all the bad points of the album seem good ie the quotes I used above 'this band don't care what anyone thinks, they do what they want etc)

This is clearly a case of either

a/ a magazine being payed to praise a crap album

b/ a magazine trying to double guess it's audience

either way, I find this unforgivable and I am glad I stopped reading a long time ago
 

alex

Do not read this.
this thread has just reminded me but I take it everyone has seen the Paul Ross print on amazon?
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I was pointed towards a recent Terrorizer article in which they previewed the most recent Morbid Angel album. Now this album is beyond terrible and has been universally panned.

In this preview they gave glowing praise and made all the bad points of the album seem good ie the quotes I used above 'this band don't care what anyone thinks, they do what they want etc)

This is clearly a case of either

a/ a magazine being payed to praise a crap album

b/ a magazine trying to double guess it's audience

either way, I find this unforgivable and I am glad I stopped reading a long time ago

Double guess its supposed market I think. They changed editor and any semblance of being an alternative metal mag went out the window, havent seen it in quite a while now.
 

PadaEtc

Emperor Penguin
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Probably one of the worst reviews i've ever read! My favourite bit of this is when he name drops Source Direct in order to appear to have some credibility.

I read interviews more than reviews to be honest - I often find reviews stop me hearing something without pre-conceptions, I know it shouldn't be like that but I can't help it sometimes!
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
i wouldn't read vice if i wanted informed opinion on anything....


Going back to the original post I agree with a lot of it but i think your idea of a cliche is a bit off the mark. i'll give you the 'on acid' one because that is utterly useless, but 'if you like x then you'll like y'? that's a probably one of the most simple and effective ways of communicating to the reader the information they want/need - it's essentially just contextualisation...

But if you actually meant that specific phrase 'if you like x...' then yeah you've got a point, but i think that would come under bad writing rather than bad reviewing
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
oh yea and i think gumdrops already said but 3 stars is the real average. you see 4 star reviews on every average movie's poster because every average movie has some generous reviews, for whatever reason.
 

Ulala

Awkward Woodward
But if you actually meant that specific phrase 'if you like x...' then yeah you've got a point, but i think that would come under bad writing rather than bad reviewing

I very much meant that specific phrase. I'm all for "this is comparable to..." (with justification as to why, of course) but just plucking the first vaguely similar example and saying "you'll like this too" is presumptuous and lazy.

It's entirely possible that 3 stars is the average score given across all publications (it should be, certainly, if we assume a normal distribution, though as I've said upthread, very few publications use the entire range in any meaningful way and seem to mark from 3 upwards) but my point with the thread title is that '4 stars' is absolutely ubiquitous, quoted on every film poster, cd sleeve and book jacket. It is the visual short-hand for "not shit", in the eyes of the entertainment industry and public.
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
I'll be the radical one, then, and say, that it's not just the phrase 'if you like x...' which is problematic, but the whole point of basing a review on comparisons. A review should point out what is unique and original about a piece of art, not what is familiar and old. Yeah, it's an easy way to tell the reader what he wants to know, but the whole problem with reviews - and kinda everything in these consumerist times - is that they focus too much on giving people what they want as easily as possible. This is the opposite of everything art should do.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
I'll be the radical one, then, and say, that it's not just the phrase 'if you like x...' which is problematic, but the whole point of basing a review on comparisons. A review should point out what is unique and original about a piece of art, not what is familiar and old.

I don't think comparison necessarily precludes identifying uniqueness. A thing's brilliance could be what was absent in something else...
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
You're right, good point. Yeah, just saying that 'comparisons' are problematic is too simplistic, often times reviewers do point out why this record is different from this other, mostly similar record, i.e. it being 'on acid'. But still, I would say that most comparisons used in reviews are used to point out similarities, and even when they actually point out differences, the point could have been made better by engaging more directly with the object under review.
 
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