Conspiracy Competition. I lay down the gauntlet.

firefinga

Well-known member
The anti-vaxxer movement is only the most well-known aspect of anti-medicine conspiracy theory;

Me thinks, they are one of the more prominent conspiracy groups of today, regarding numers and errr "influence". There used to be an article here and there in the past, but the last few years they seem to be popping up in the evening TV news repeatedly (at least in the German speaking world). Which is somewhat the evidence of reaching mainstream awareness.
 

sufi

lala
A classic thread-bumpo from dissensus' anti-conspiranaut faction, who seem to feel the irresistible need to promote conspiracies and assign them to shadowy "groups" and "movements" from the fringes of cyberspace and social media "They are everywhere and getting more and more!"
Luckily our antis are so insightful that only they can perceive the enormous false consciousness that these theoretical conspiranoids are labouring under.
phew, thank goodness for the woke sheeple, where's my laughing crying smiley :crylarf:
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Yeah, Wilson and Shea are/were obviously smart guys - I've not read Illuminatus! but I did read the Schroedinger's Cat trilogy a long time ago, and I gather it covers a lot of the same themes. It seemed to me that they were using these grand, shadowy, occult conspiracies as metaphors for kind of boring but very real conspiracies, like industry lobbies, think tanks, major religious bodies, the media and so on.

Pynchon would be the Daddy here, I guess, though I didn't realise this when I read Wilson.

Part of my depressive response when confronted with this stuff nowadays comes out of being engaged (to a very limited extent) with what comes out of Syria. Assad in conjunction with the Russian state are running a hugely successful "fog of war" campaign to distort/deny/sow confusion about what's happening out there. The Khan Sheikhoun attack is a good exemplar, or the commentary that surrounds The White Helmets. See the comments underneath this Monbiot tweet for examples:
The fucking Canary was pumping out the same bullshit the other day, which is a big reason I can't feel at all supportive towards the Corbynite Left as discussed at length with Droid in the Corbyn thread.

It's such a close fit with people's unarticulated distrust of "the man" that it gets lapped up and disseminated thoughtlessly. Idrees Ahmed wrote "There are few things more commonplace than an Oedipal disdain for one’s own government" which is absolutely spot on in describing the emotional dynamics at work here.

I can't find this shit entertaining anymore.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Another conspiracy template that seems to have crept into the mainstream is the accusation of "rigged elections", but only when the result doesn't suit the whiners'. Admittedly, usually coming from the right/populists' camps, but also seen from leftists.
 

luka

Well-known member
boring innit sufi
its like weve gone back 2 square 1
the internet has scared people into reactionary positions. predictble but dispriting nonetheless
run back to daddy
 

luka

Well-known member
the internet has thrown two related problems into stark releif
1. the credulity of human people
2. the pollution of the the information supply

it is not a cause. it is a magnifying glass.
 

luka

Well-known member
are people too stupid to be permitted to think (and research) for themselves?
it's possible but you couldnt draw a more undemocratic conclusion.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
are people too stupid to be permitted to think (and research) for themselves?

Lots of people are doing this, of course.

The idea that if everyone did this they would all end up at conspiracy theories is hilarious.
 

luka

Well-known member
there seems to be a feeling among the bloc sufi identifies here (anti-conspirinaut) that truth is simple straight forward and self-evident and that its arbiter is daddy
again this strikes me as anti democratic. there are dangers (eg pogroms, outbreaks of tb or cowpox etc) but they must be faced and fought not retreated from.
it will likely take at least a couple of generations to get to grips with.
 

luka

Well-known member
Lots of people are doing this, of course.

The idea that if everyone did this they would all end up at conspiracy theories is hilarious.

i dont know what this means but suspect its the wrong end of the stick
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
are people too stupid to be permitted to think (and research) for themselves?
it's possible but you couldnt draw a more undemocratic conclusion.

It's not a question of permission - just lots of the positions that people arrive at are bullshit. I'd say it's lack of (self-driven) research - lack of knowing a subject deeply. I'd say intellectual laziness drives this and an easy willingness to fit facts into pre-existing conclusions. Also, it's a lack of awareness about how these narratives provide cover for the actions of states and are therefore actively perpetuated by them.

Conspiracies often reproduce our existing power relations as well, while masking them - with Syria, a lot of the commentary is straight up racist. White people discounting Arab voices and explaining what it's *really* about, which is seen through the lens of our concerns. Thus (for instance) Syria is about "pipelines" - the whole history of the region, its various factions/ethnicities/clans/classes, the aspirations towards democracy of the revolution - all this is elided under some bullshit which makes it about the West.
 
Last edited:

john eden

male pale and stale
i dont know what this means but suspect its the wrong end of the stick

My point is that, whether or not they are "permitted" (your word), people are doing their own research.

Despite this (or perhaps because of it), not everyone thinks conspiracy theories are Amazing and Fun.
 
Last edited:

john eden

male pale and stale
there seems to be a feeling among the bloc sufi identifies here (anti-conspirinaut) that truth is simple straight forward and self-evident and that its arbiter is daddy
again this strikes me as anti democratic. there are dangers (eg pogroms, outbreaks of tb or cowpox etc) but they must be faced and fought not retreated from.
it will likely take at least a couple of generations to get to grips with.

The whole point is that the truth isn't simple, straightforward and self-evident. That is EXACTLY what conspiracy theories try to present - that complex issues can be resolved down to a single source, like a cabal.
 

luka

Well-known member
the challenge ie where we are, is to learn to live with this vast increase of information, with the opening up of access to information and the opening up of access to the communication of information
obv. much of it (the majority?) inaccurate/misleading
it's the arrow of democracy --------->
 

luka

Well-known member
tbh i dont think you two know what argument you are trying to present. or at least i certainly dont
 

luka

Well-known member
if its just i dont like conspiracies then fine. thats like saying i dont like football. i just dont know where youre going with it
 

john eden

male pale and stale
That conspiracy theories have more in common with religion when it comes to explaining the world than a rational, structural critique.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
That at best, they are consumed passively and have very little effect on the world.

That at worst they directly contribute to making the world worse through the rise of fascism (or by intensifying the social base from which fascism emerges).
 
Top