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Thread: Conspiracy Competition. I lay down the gauntlet.

  1. #31
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    there seems to be a feeling among the bloc sufi identifies here (anti-conspirinaut) that truth is simple straight forward and self-evident and that its arbiter is daddy
    again this strikes me as anti democratic. there are dangers (eg pogroms, outbreaks of tb or cowpox etc) but they must be faced and fought not retreated from.
    it will likely take at least a couple of generations to get to grips with.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    Lots of people are doing this, of course.

    The idea that if everyone did this they would all end up at conspiracy theories is hilarious.
    i dont know what this means but suspect its the wrong end of the stick

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    are people too stupid to be permitted to think (and research) for themselves?
    it's possible but you couldnt draw a more undemocratic conclusion.
    It's not a question of permission - just lots of the positions that people arrive at are bullshit. I'd say it's lack of (self-driven) research - lack of knowing a subject deeply. I'd say intellectual laziness drives this and an easy willingness to fit facts into pre-existing conclusions. Also, it's a lack of awareness about how these narratives provide cover for the actions of states and are therefore actively perpetuated by them.

    Conspiracies often reproduce our existing power relations as well, while masking them - with Syria, a lot of the commentary is straight up racist. White people discounting Arab voices and explaining what it's *really* about, which is seen through the lens of our concerns. Thus (for instance) Syria is about "pipelines" - the whole history of the region, its various factions/ethnicities/clans/classes, the aspirations towards democracy of the revolution - all this is elided under some bullshit which makes it about the West.
    Last edited by DannyL; 05-07-2017 at 03:26 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    i dont know what this means but suspect its the wrong end of the stick
    My point is that, whether or not they are "permitted" (your word), people are doing their own research.

    Despite this (or perhaps because of it), not everyone thinks conspiracy theories are Amazing and Fun.
    Last edited by john eden; 05-07-2017 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    there seems to be a feeling among the bloc sufi identifies here (anti-conspirinaut) that truth is simple straight forward and self-evident and that its arbiter is daddy
    again this strikes me as anti democratic. there are dangers (eg pogroms, outbreaks of tb or cowpox etc) but they must be faced and fought not retreated from.
    it will likely take at least a couple of generations to get to grips with.
    The whole point is that the truth isn't simple, straightforward and self-evident. That is EXACTLY what conspiracy theories try to present - that complex issues can be resolved down to a single source, like a cabal.

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  7. #36
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    the challenge ie where we are, is to learn to live with this vast increase of information, with the opening up of access to information and the opening up of access to the communication of information
    obv. much of it (the majority?) inaccurate/misleading
    it's the arrow of democracy --------->

  8. #37
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    tbh i dont think you two know what argument you are trying to present. or at least i certainly dont

  9. #38
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    if its just i dont like conspiracies then fine. thats like saying i dont like football. i just dont know where youre going with it

  10. #39
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    That conspiracy theories have more in common with religion when it comes to explaining the world than a rational, structural critique.

  11. #40
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    That at best, they are consumed passively and have very little effect on the world.

    That at worst they directly contribute to making the world worse through the rise of fascism (or by intensifying the social base from which fascism emerges).

  12. #41
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    Like all culture, the form that conspiracy theories take is determined by the society from which they emerge. It is therefore incredibly rare to see conspiracy theories which promote anything vaguely progressive or liberatory.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    That at best, they are consumed passively and have very little effect on the world.

    .
    I think this is kinda your motivation for the thread Luka - conspiracies as entertainment. They're a great, weird laugh etc. - and a lot of conspiracy material is consumed in this manner tbf.

    X post with John but spot on, JE.

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  15. #43
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    yes, that you dont like them. thats a perfectly reasonable stance to take. so long as youre not proposing to do anything about it at least.

  16. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    I think this is kinda your motivation for the thread Luka - conspiracies as entertainment. They're a great, weird laugh etc. - and a lot of conspiracy material is consumed in this manner tbf.
    well, perhaps, thats an aspect of it but really theres more to it and its my own fault becasue i keep putting off the writing of the essay id need to write to explain my position

  17. #45
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    having to explain yourself is the most tiresome thing imaginable, but if you dont you cant complain when youre misunderstood

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