Conspiracy Competition. I lay down the gauntlet.

john eden

male pale and stale
Like all culture, the form that conspiracy theories take is determined by the society from which they emerge. It is therefore incredibly rare to see conspiracy theories which promote anything vaguely progressive or liberatory.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
That at best, they are consumed passively and have very little effect on the world.

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I think this is kinda your motivation for the thread Luka - conspiracies as entertainment. They're a great, weird laugh etc. - and a lot of conspiracy material is consumed in this manner tbf.

X post with John but spot on, JE.
 

luka

Well-known member
yes, that you dont like them. thats a perfectly reasonable stance to take. so long as youre not proposing to do anything about it at least.
 

luka

Well-known member
I think this is kinda your motivation for the thread Luka - conspiracies as entertainment. They're a great, weird laugh etc. - and a lot of conspiracy material is consumed in this manner tbf.

well, perhaps, thats an aspect of it but really theres more to it and its my own fault becasue i keep putting off the writing of the essay id need to write to explain my position
 

luka

Well-known member
having to explain yourself is the most tiresome thing imaginable, but if you dont you cant complain when youre misunderstood
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Also, we have been here before.

I get that Luka would like a vivid ecosystem of ideas, and that he doesn't want grown ups spoiling him getting stoned and looking at websites with flashing pyramids with eyes in them.

Undeniably there is a weird poetry to some of that which is compelling. But pogroms really aren't a price worth paying for this stuff.
 

luka

Well-known member
my stance on them, and ive hinted at this numerous times, is that they are instructive in all sorts of ways, not necessarily that they are entertaining in themselves, as has been pointed out here they are more often than not tawdry and depressing
 

luka

Well-known member
the pogroms, as far as i can recall, were not contemporaneous with internet conspiracy culture
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I think that my position extends a bit further than "not liking them". I don't really like football, or peppermint tea, or heavy metal. But generally I will concede that these are my personal tastes and that they don't actually cause harm.

my stance on them, and ive hinted at this numerous times, is that they are instructive in all sorts of ways, not necessarily that they are entertaining in themselves, as has been pointed out here they are more often than not tawdry and depressing

Well you would need to expand on how they are instructive. I've found reading BNP material instructive in the past, but I don't feel the need to defend their existence, or suggest that people should join in with what they are doing by coming up with more theories/policies/whatever.
 

luka

Well-known member
yes i know but its a major job which is why i have been putting it off but i accept it has to be done to make the conversation worthwhile/ apologies
 

john eden

male pale and stale
1st casualty of war is truth etc etc nothing new there

That's just lazy though. Not every war includes anti-semitism. So what are the factors which mean that this war does? Why are anti-semitic attacks at record levels in the UK? (It's not because Jewish people here have suddenly got a lot more annoying or visible is it?)
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
That's just lazy though.

Yes it is. Ironic coming from the guy advocating that people do their own research upthread. Or that "the man" wasn't permitting them to do their research in some way that hasn't been explained, I forget.
 

sufi

lala
these are terrible examples,

the disgusting rise in hate crime seems to afflict all sorts of groups, and is a result of the ugly social forces you mention above, rather than specifically due to antisemitic conspiracy theories, as the article you cite states fairly clearly, no? :rolleyes:

& the rebuttal to the Canary, which i assume is quite correct, is in the context of a highly polarised political discourse, and criticises Hersh who, though he may be barking up the wroing tree in this case, exposed the extremely suspect and partial USGOV narrative about the death of Bin Laden - a "conspiracy theory" that has not been objectively debunked yet, as far as i know.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
It's evidence for the argument I'm making that conspiratorial thinking actively causes harm, and allows States to cover their actions. Batting it away without "nothing new there" is really lazy. Truth being the first casualty of war is exactly what I'm talking about.
 

sufi

lala
and i don't think that saying that conspiracy theories serves the right is the end of the story either.
Writing off all conspiracy theories out of hand certainly serves the right, since genuine conspiracies will have tended to be cooked up by the power, no?
 

sufi

lala
and so, if you're saying that the harm caused by your theoretical misled hordes of conspiranauts being distracted from the real evils of the world, i simply disagree, in that even if a small number of real conspiracies are exposed by inquisitive minds encouraged by this cultural phenomenon, the benefit of that may outweigh what you see as a net disadvantage.
Or are you going to explain how you "Objectively" quantify that?
 
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