Conspiracy Competition. I lay down the gauntlet.

sufi

lala
Look at the comments under the Monbiot tweet upthread if you'd like to see how this plays out.
a load of gobshites arguing the toss on an obscure corner of the web. how is that relevant? or did i not get your point?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
A classic thread-bumpo from dissensus' anti-conspiranaut faction, who seem to feel the irresistible need to promote conspiracies and assign them to shadowy "groups" and "movements" from the fringes of cyberspace and social media "They are everywhere and getting more and more!"
Luckily our antis are so insightful that only they can perceive the enormous false consciousness that these theoretical conspiranoids are labouring under.
phew, thank goodness for the woke sheeple, where's my laughing crying smiley :crylarf:

Yeah m8 maybe you're right m8, and Aids isn't real, cultural marxists are trying to wipe out the white race and Hilary Clinton really is the ringleader of a global paedo gang. Where's my Alex-Jones-yelling-himself-hoarse emoji?
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
and so, if you're saying that the harm caused by your theoretical misled hordes of conspiranauts being distracted from the real evils of the world, i simply disagree, in that even if a small number of real conspiracies are exposed by inquisitive minds encouraged by this cultural phenomenon, the benefit of that may outweigh what you see as a net disadvantage.
Or are you going to explain how you "Objectively" quantify that?

Well you would need to provide some examples of progressive conspiracy theory culture then.

As I said the last time we discussed this, there ARE conspiracies. Hillsborough would be an example.

But the methodology of the Hillsborough campaign is markedly different from how conspiracy theory culture operates.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I don't think you get my point.

My point is it's an act of mass murder. The causes of that mass murder and the parties responsible are verifiable. Presenting it as "arguing the toss" hugely cheapens what happened, and presents the event as simply a competition between points of view that are given a false equivalence. Conspiracy narratives aid this process - they help to obscure, and we should ask ourselves who profits by their dissemination.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Which of the conspiracies being talked bout on here (I think) are NOT permitted? Or has anybody ever been banned by perpetuating any? Plus, as if any conspiracy nut, errrr truther ever stopped believing his "truth" when confronted with stuff others consider more plausible. See, I am also able to promote (mild) relativism.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
Maybe we could use term "atrocity enablers" instead of gobshites? But I guess that's being somehow oppressive.
 

sufi

lala
these are your strawmen
Yeah m8 maybe you're right m8, and Aids isn't real, cultural marxists are trying to wipe out the white race and Hilary Clinton really is the ringleader of a global paedo gang. Where's my Alex-Jones-yelling-himself-hoarse-emoji?
&
None of the conspiracies being talked bout on here (I think) are NOT permitted. Or has anybody ever been banned by perpetuating any? Plus, as if any conspiracy nut, errrr truther ever stopped believing his "truth" when confronted with stuff others consider more plausible. See, I am also able to promote (mild) relativism.
You have this fantasy of slavering tin-hatted conspiracy theorists, which is cherry picked from the most extreme and disproportionate examples, and used to bully humble souls into silence.
 

sufi

lala
Well are they gobshites or is their view as valid as anyone else's, Dad?
It's important to recognise I think that people talk a lot of old cobblers online. That's not the same as engaging with the real world. Monbiot himself is fairly far out on the tentacles of the MSM, if you're suggesting somehow that this long stream of confused non-sequiturs is a useful discussion then it's off to bed with no telly for you eden.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
You have this fantasy of slavering tin-hatted conspiracy theorists, which is cherry picked from the most extreme and disproportionate examples

Trust me, I don't have any fantasies regarding conspiracy nuts, and the examples I mentioned are not most extreme, it's the most common ones (except the Nazis on the dark side of the moon bit, I admit that)
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I really do think that the criticism on here is inviting debate rather than trying to shut anybody up.

Fill the gaping void on the pro-conspiracy theory side with something better than "oh well they're not really that bad and you're spoiling our fun" And I'll be all ears.
 

sufi

lala
Maybe we could use term "atrocity enablers" instead of gobshites? But I guess that's being somehow oppressive.
How so? Don't you think that there may be actual forces a little closer to the events that have a real impact, such as armed groups, weapons dealers, rampaging states and non-states, ineffectual diplomats,
You are dignifying these bullshitters with an agency that doesn’t exist, creating the strawman that allows you to pour scorn on the likes of Daniel Morgan, The Chagos Islanders, Gary Webb, ... the list goes on
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
its not a strawman. you havent quite understood what it means yet

It's absolutely a strawman. You appeal, over and over and over, to this idea that I'm in thrall to THEM, to THE MAN. My position is just that it's well to bear in mind the same skepticism you might apply when reading something in the dreaded "MSM" when you ingest information from "alternative" sources, and to recognize that it's extremely easy to be sucked in by anti-establishment rhetoric that appears revolutionary but actually serves the most reactionary causes possible. I mean, fuck, I can't believe I'm having to explain this (again). Gah.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
And then there is the aspect of conspiracies as a well-working business. Types like Alex Jones are just the tip of the iceberg of a very busy industry.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
How so? Don't you think that there may be actual forces a little closer to the events that have a real impact, such as armed groups, weapons dealers, rampaging states and non-states, ineffectual diplomats,
You are dignifying these bullshitters with an agency that doesn’t exist, creating the strawman that allows you to pour scorn on the likes of Daniel Morgan, The Chagos Islanders, Gary Webb, ... the list goes on

But their bullshit is ultimately driven by States. Assad has used conspiratorial claims about outside interference to de-legitimise the opposition since before the conflict started, and Russia fights a kind of cyberwar with similar ends, supporting its strategic goals and attacking opponents. The net was flooded with counter-claims about Khan Sheikhoun in the days after the attack, most probably due to the unpredictability of Trump and his authorisation of the attack on Al-Shayrat airbase. This is an interesting account of a Russian troll factory: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html and there've been several other similar reports, I posted another good piece upthread.
 

sufi

lala
But their bullshit is ultimately driven by States. Assad has used conspiratorial claims about outside interference to de-legitimise the opposition since before the conflict started, and Russia fights a kind of cyberwar with similar ends, supporting its strategic goals and attacking opponents. The net was flooded with counter-claims about Khan Sheikhoun in the days after the attack, most probably due to the unpredictability of Trump and his authorisation of the attack on Al-Shayrat airbase. This is an interesting account of a Russian troll factory: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html and there've been several other similar reports, I posted another good piece upthread.
ok i think i get you now.
you're saying that all these tweeters responding to Monbiot are state-sponsored trolls, so it's a conspiraceeeeeee :crylarf:
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
The irony had not escaped me.

And not every one of 'em, no. But the lies and denials have a certain appeal to audiences whose first instinct is to hate the West.
 
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