CrowleyHead

Well-known member
what part of lil jon's productions have become irrelevant? it feels like the dna of everything.

The productions aren't irrelevant at all, but he's not recognized. Recognition is a dying art.

I bitch about this routinely but history of rap is basically shot full of holes from 98 onto 08. Part of this is because this is a time where a lot of rap coverage outside of the rap world fell apart as indie rap enthusiasts created a historical blackout of the supposed 'mainstream' and insisted this was more relevant despite the fact that there were various threads of commercial commercial, commercial underground, underground commercial and underground underground. At the same time, the last 4 years have seen rap experts appointed who have no desire to educate themselves on the history and simply talk and react to the now while shirking the responsibility of learning and rediscovery. You get past a list of 10 people you need to know from that whole era (Jay-Z, Cam'ron, Missy Elliot, Gucci Mane...) and then it becomes obscurant and the domain of nerds.

Rap Nerds have adjusted the backpack canon to include west coast and southern rap, but they certainly tail off once the digital age begins where samples are de-emphasized for the synthesized construction with the exception of pre-approved auteurs like Mannie Fresh or the like. Lil' Jon isn't worth canonization because of how gaudily he supposedly sold out with his turn to modern day EDM as a career path; an ahistorical notion when you remember that his initial career was working as a producer underneath Jermaine Dupri (himself a not fully recognized pioneer of rap and more) to be an integral part of the Atlanta Bass scene long before his hijacking of Crunk to Atlanta from Memphis. Crunk as a whole is mostly forgotten or unspoken of, despite actually being more integral to getting Atlanta as a major force of domination in the music industry than Trap.

Ironically, there's another thing in that the Lugerian sound that Flockavelli made so important is itself another Memphis hijack... Trap prior was the high-energy synths and nerviness of Shawty Redd and Zaytoven. The move into Wagnerian bombast begins with Memphis producer Drumma Boi who's initial work was producing for Gangsta Boo until he gained prominence by assisting the likes of Jeezy, Gucci, Rocko, etc. In reality, Atlanta as a creative force is exaggerated when two of its major movements are actually borrowed from templates established by Atlanta. It also explains why in reality the majority of Atlanta rap is descended from futuristic swag rap, when arguably the biggest Orthodox trap rapper (disregarding Gucci who's now more of a legacy figure than a major contemporary rapper) in the south is Memphis' Young Dolph.

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sadmanbarty

Well-known member
i said to luke the other week that rap from the east and west coasts were the final incarnations of the soul/funk tradition as opposed to the south which gave birth to something new that i suspect still's got a lot of mileage in it. aside from the very beginning of rap i'd argue the only bursts of radicalism in it's entire history have come from the south.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Lauryn Hill set back humanity about 5 decades, that's a fact. .

we've all failed crowl. we need to join together and give him the collective boost of moral he need. he can taste his own greatness and so can we. it's up to us to ensure he gets the platform and recognition he deserves.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
as the author of the rap-skeptic manifesto i can't join in with this thread properly, but it'd be good to pin down the strands missing from current canon even if nobody's going to cough up proper lists:

wagnarianism

futurism

fragmentation of flows

vocal melodies

ambience
 

luka

Well-known member
we've all failed crowl. we need to join together and give him the collective boost of moral he need. he can taste his own greatness and so can we. it's up to us to ensure he gets the platform and recognition he deserves.

i think this is right actually. i think it is up to us to push him and prod him and help him to draw out what is stuck in there. to be midwives in other words. he told me hes being battered with life and school demands at the moment but once he weathers that storm we will start pestering him much more.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
i said to luke the other week that rap from the east and west coasts were the final incarnations of the soul/funk tradition as opposed to the south which gave birth to something new that i suspect still's got a lot of mileage in it. aside from the very beginning of rap i'd argue the only bursts of radicalism in it's entire history have come from the south.

Something to do with being patronised and looked down upon for two decades, I'm sure. The unloved child finds remarkably innovative ways to be noticed.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
The south is too wide a region to become a school proper. California is essentially LA and The Bay as a collective of cities. NYC is a series of boroughs/neighborhoods. Those form pockets that are, despite certain threads, inherently linked and easy to bounce back between one another. The south you have.... Texas, Memphis, Florida, Atlanta, New Orleans... So many self-informing pockets that occasionally harken back to the East or West but also inform themselves and thereby there is no real sense of hegemony. The exception being Atlanta in the last couple of years, but that's to be expected given the fact it's kind of informally become the new NYC.

Also gotta throw in the midwest b/c Chicago, Kansas City, Detroit and a couple other places have formed their own threads of thought that are neither inherently Southern or anything else.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
You've got to read that Third Coast book Crowley recommended me (although for some reason I forget now I put it down just as I was getting to the Atlantan Renaissance and haven't finished it as I should have)
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
when me, you and jim hang out together without luke we're going to listen to hell on earth while talking about why ezra pound's shit.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Guru and Havoc the great functioning alcoholics for as long as they survive. RIP Guru with this anthem:


I love this track so much.
 
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