the rap canon needs rewriting
- Thread starter luka
- Start date
nomos
Administrator
i'll argue til i'm blue that jungle brothers 'done by the forces of nature' is possibly the most underrated rap album ever. bad luck that it was released within a year of 3 feet high, nation of millions and straight outta compton. the production is mental in places. native tongues vibe before it got too self conscious.
de la soul is dead was poor.
de la soul is dead was poor.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Actually agree with most of Luka's assessments of the above albums (the ones I've heard anyway). Probably not with the ATCQ panning cos I used to love those two albums. I mean, I'd probably get bored listening to Midnight Marauders/Low End Theory nowadays because the internet has destroyed my attention span, but that goes for almost ANY album (in ANY genre, too!). When was the last time I even listened to Illmatic the whole way through?
I think this is actually how I view a lot of these albums now, for better or worse: I think of 'The Infamous' and about eight tracks pop up in my head as being ridiculously good, and therefore I consider it (like Luka) a SUPER CLASSIC. Whereas ''The Shining'', say, I can only remember liking about four or five tunes off it enough to listen to them again now, and so it seems like it must have been a boring album... It was a bit of a boring album, though. Hard to get through, at least.
I wonder if a lot of these classics will seem less and less classic as we become more and more attuned to selecting whatever track we want to hear, shuffling playlists etc.?
I think this is actually how I view a lot of these albums now, for better or worse: I think of 'The Infamous' and about eight tracks pop up in my head as being ridiculously good, and therefore I consider it (like Luka) a SUPER CLASSIC. Whereas ''The Shining'', say, I can only remember liking about four or five tunes off it enough to listen to them again now, and so it seems like it must have been a boring album... It was a bit of a boring album, though. Hard to get through, at least.
I wonder if a lot of these classics will seem less and less classic as we become more and more attuned to selecting whatever track we want to hear, shuffling playlists etc.?
connect_icut
Well-known member
Embarrassed to admit that rap music ended for me in 1996. I have a very vivid memory of a mate playing me the second Jay-Z single and me thinking "Well, that's the end of that then". I've liked the occasional thing since then but mainly mortifyingly uncool stuff like Anti Pop Consortium.
I actually finally bought the vinyl of Illmatic this very evening. Just listened to it. It was ace.
I actually finally bought the vinyl of Illmatic this very evening. Just listened to it. It was ace.
hucks
Your Message Here
You're quite right. My big brother used to get the source around then and I'd sneak the odd read. I've literally not a clue where I got the above idea from. Although I note the time of the posting and the fact I went out for Friday night drinks straight from work.
anyway best rap album of all time, ever, EVER is saafir's boxcar sessions. forget illmatic.
cant believe luka doesnt like epmd. first and 2nd album are just all time classic for me. its my thing = perfection.
and critical beatdown is also immortal.
i did for a long time think rakim was quite a bit overrated though. i still do actually, though lyrics of fury is one of my favourite hip hop tracks.
cant believe luka doesnt like epmd. first and 2nd album are just all time classic for me. its my thing = perfection.
and critical beatdown is also immortal.
i did for a long time think rakim was quite a bit overrated though. i still do actually, though lyrics of fury is one of my favourite hip hop tracks.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
with this you nullified the whole thread. or maybe just spoke for a generation. how old are you? if you don't mind me asking.
illmatic never did it for me. i didn't find Nas to have much of a strong personality or even a particularly cool voice. also didn't find his lyrics to be as deep as so many people were saying they were and i felt like he lacked the funk&humor which i always found to be common traits in the mcs i really dug. ny state of mind beat is always killer tho.
fwiw: ultramag, ultra (kieth & tim dog), dr octagon and dr dooom are some of my favorite groups in hiphop history.
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CrowleyHead
Well-known member
The JBz discography is severely underrated. My dad basically brought me up in the classic hip-hop sense by saying "Don't listen to Tribe and De La, because they're all lame versions of the 1st Jungle Brothers album and they only tricked people into thinking they got further because they had 'better' production." I actually repayed the favor by showing him the unedited 'what should have been' stuff from Crazy Wisdom Masters, which led to me showing him Rammellzee and Divine Styler's 2nd LP (he'd actually only heard the 1st and maybe the 4th or something, which is an awesome lapse.)
The thing is, people need to get rid of certain albums and realize how LITTLE an effect they had. Like, EPMD is essential to the early West Coast sound, that's a fact. But say... "Liquid Swords" seperate your feelings from the album people, who else took anything from Liquid Swords other than the idea that all Wu-Tang do is rap about numbers, kung fu movies, and wizard shit?
The thing is, people need to get rid of certain albums and realize how LITTLE an effect they had. Like, EPMD is essential to the early West Coast sound, that's a fact. But say... "Liquid Swords" seperate your feelings from the album people, who else took anything from Liquid Swords other than the idea that all Wu-Tang do is rap about numbers, kung fu movies, and wizard shit?
smokeyrobinson
Active member
I'd be much more interested to read a 'best hip-hop albums' list by someone who thinks Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous is #1 than by someone who has ILLmatic on the top spot.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
wow, yeah. never ever got why this one was so big. same for cuban linx. only wu tang i really like and have time for these days is 36 chambers which has to be in the top 10 hh LPs ever. still stands up today. along with that - if forever was condensed into 1cd, they maybe made a double LP of the good shit from all the solo albums (have heard quite a few but not all) then they would have a pretty amazing run, but there's way too much chaff.
p.s. that wu chronicles comp has some pretty great shit on it.
luka
Well-known member
really? why? its an album in a very similar vein just not as well excuted. that person would just be wrong. its more humorous i suppose...
im more interested in a list which gets away from having 90 new york albums from the late 80s early 90s and the rest of the list made up of nwa and getto boys.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
I do it out of pure agony. Wu-Tang were my Kiss, you know, they were my superheroes. Now they're all the most talentless DICKHEADS.
Did you hear that Wu-Tang Westwood Freestyle? Method Man wasting everyone's time for so long... The fucking "Yonkers" beat got played, which was as close to a Rza beat as they're ever going to get, and he assed out. Meanwhile, U-God ACTUALLY KILLED EVERYONE. It's gotten that bad!
But I actually maintain a lot of people overrate groups... Like, IMHO, Public Enemy is a singles group. Yes, It Takes A Nation is a classic, but seperate the singles from it... This is why I always had a problem with concerts where someone plays the entire album over. Yes, you love "THOSE" songs... but do you really need a set where you don't hear "Fight The Power" and instead get "Caught; Can I Get A Witness" or "Party For Your Right To Fight"?
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
For me, OB4CLinx and Liquid Swords are classic mainly because of the beats. The rapping is good-great on both albums but I dunno... I never really ended up memorising a single verse from OB4Clinx, even though its a favourite album of mine. I mean, the lyrics would probably pop into my head once I start listening to it but I can't think of many lines off the top of my head. There was a really good article in HHC about OB4CL (it was in their ''Top 100 albums of the last 10/15 years'' feature - it came first) which made me want to listen more closely to the lyrics... but I never did.
Still, RZA's production on those albums is amazing.
Enter The Wu is full of classic lines/verses and nothing the group ever did after that (for me) came close. I don't think the album has actually dated as much as more straightforward boom-bap NY albums from that era because the production is so off-kilter and intricate and the rap styles are so varied and distinct. It retains a sort of freshness because of its idiosyncrasy.
Ghostface is the only Wu member who really kept my interest post ''Wu Tang Forever''.
Still, RZA's production on those albums is amazing.
Enter The Wu is full of classic lines/verses and nothing the group ever did after that (for me) came close. I don't think the album has actually dated as much as more straightforward boom-bap NY albums from that era because the production is so off-kilter and intricate and the rap styles are so varied and distinct. It retains a sort of freshness because of its idiosyncrasy.
Ghostface is the only Wu member who really kept my interest post ''Wu Tang Forever''.
luka
Well-known member
not even the nas verse?
through the lights cameras and action glamour glitter and gold i unfold the scroll plant seeds to stampede th globe
crowley... wu-tang forever.... i was waiting for that like ive nvr waited for an album before. ive nevr felt hurt/disappointed/betrayed by an artist/group of artists like that since, ive nevr investd in an artist like that since....i do understand.
through the lights cameras and action glamour glitter and gold i unfold the scroll plant seeds to stampede th globe
crowley... wu-tang forever.... i was waiting for that like ive nvr waited for an album before. ive nevr felt hurt/disappointed/betrayed by an artist/group of artists like that since, ive nevr investd in an artist like that since....i do understand.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
wu forever has some good material but yeah, 36 chambers was always going to be hard to follow.