the rap canon needs rewriting

**CrowleyHead** · 15-10-2011, 03:41 PM

The JBz discography is severely underrated. My dad basically brought me up in the classic hip-hop sense by saying "Don't listen to Tribe and De La, because they're all lame versions of the 1st Jungle Brothers album and they only tricked people into thinking they got further because they had 'better' production." I actually repayed the favor by showing him the unedited 'what should have been' stuff from Crazy Wisdom Masters, which led to me showing him Rammellzee and Divine Styler's 2nd LP (he'd actually only heard the 1st and maybe the 4th or something, which is an awesome lapse.)

The thing is, people need to get rid of certain albums and realize how LITTLE an effect they had. Like, EPMD is essential to the early West Coast sound, that's a fact. But say... "Liquid Swords" seperate your feelings from the album people, who else took anything from Liquid Swords other than the idea that all Wu-Tang do is rap about numbers, kung fu movies, and wizard shit?

**hint** · 15-10-2011, 04:54 PM

EPMD are cool when a DJ burns through a greatest hits in 10 minutes or something. But it's the beats, really...

**smokeyrobinson** · 15-10-2011, 05:14 PM

I'd be much more interested to read a 'best hip-hop albums' list by someone who thinks Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous is #1 than by someone who has ILLmatic on the top spot.

**pattycakes** · 15-10-2011, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by CrowleyHead

But say... "Liquid Swords" seperate your feelings from the album people, who else took anything from Liquid Swords other than the idea that all Wu-Tang do is rap about numbers, kung fu movies, and wizard shit?

wow, yeah. never ever got why this one was so big. same for cuban linx. only wu tang i really like and have time for these days is 36 chambers which has to be in the top 10 hh LPs ever. still stands up today. along with that - if forever was condensed into 1cd, they maybe made a double LP of the good shit from all the solo albums (have heard quite a few but not all) then they would have a pretty amazing run, but there's way too much chaff.

p.s. that wu chronicles comp has some pretty great shit on it.

**luka** · 15-10-2011, 10:02 PM

I'd be much more interested to read a 'best hip-hop albums' list by someone who thinks Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous is #1 than by someone who has ILLmatic on the top spot.

really? why? its an album in a very similar vein just not as well excuted. that person would just be wrong. its more humorous i suppose...
im more interested in a list which gets away from having 90 new york albums from the late 80s early 90s and the rest of the list made up of nwa and getto boys.

**luka** · 15-10-2011, 10:07 PM

crowley with wu you got too much emotion for anyone to take your opinion at face value and you know it!

**CrowleyHead** · 16-10-2011, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by luka

crowley with wu you got too much emotion for anyone to take your opinion at face value and you know it!

I do it out of pure agony. Wu-Tang were my Kiss, you know, they were my superheroes. Now they're all the most talentless DICKHEADS.

Did you hear that Wu-Tang Westwood Freestyle? Method Man wasting everyone's time for so long... The fucking "Yonkers" beat got played, which was as close to a Rza beat as they're ever going to get, and he assed out. Meanwhile, U-God ACTUALLY KILLED EVERYONE. It's gotten that bad!

But I actually maintain a lot of people overrate groups... Like, IMHO, Public Enemy is a singles group. Yes, It Takes A Nation is a classic, but seperate the singles from it... This is why I always had a problem with concerts where someone plays the entire album over. Yes, you love "THOSE" songs... but do you really need a set where you don't hear "Fight The Power" and instead get "Caught; Can I Get A Witness" or "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

**Corpsey** · 16-10-2011, 06:23 AM

For me, OB4CLinx and Liquid Swords are classic mainly because of the beats. The rapping is good-great on both albums but I dunno... I never really ended up memorising a single verse from OB4Clinx, even though its a favourite album of mine. I mean, the lyrics would probably pop into my head once I start listening to it but I can't think of many lines off the top of my head. There was a really good article in HHC about OB4CL (it was in their ''Top 100 albums of the last 10/15 years'' feature - it came first) which made me want to listen more closely to the lyrics... but I never did.

Still, RZA's production on those albums is amazing.

Enter The Wu is full of classic lines/verses and nothing the group ever did after that (for me) came close. I don't think the album has actually dated as much as more straightforward boom-bap NY albums from that era because the production is so off-kilter and intricate and the rap styles are so varied and distinct. It retains a sort of freshness because of its idiosyncrasy.

Ghostface is the only Wu member who really kept my interest post ''Wu Tang Forever''.

**luka** · 16-10-2011, 08:02 AM

not even the nas verse?
through the lights cameras and action glamour glitter and gold i unfold the scroll plant seeds to stampede th globe

crowley... wu-tang forever.... i was waiting for that like ive nvr waited for an album before. ive nevr felt hurt/disappointed/betrayed by an artist/group of artists like that since, ive nevr investd in an artist like that since....i do understand.

**pattycakes** · 16-10-2011, 09:20 AM

wu forever has some good material but yeah, 36 chambers was always going to be hard to follow.

**CrowleyHead** · 16-10-2011, 01:09 PM

Even forget Wu-Forever, remember the lean years? Remember Immobilarity, every post-Tical Method Man album?

These new guys who are my age but didn't listen to rap until they were 15, and then, reading lists like this piss me off. Because then, they'll call these post-quality albums "underrated". There was a REASON that my copy of Immobilarity is chilling in the basement of my old home from when I was 8; because that's the only useful place I could think of it. It didn't even deserve to be recycled.

The minute you can 'textbook browse' for what rap you SHOULD be listening to, everything gets ruined. So many rappers who never made classics are still essential... Like, how many Biz Markie albums are on these lists!? Or what about Arrested Development! These lists filter out some of the best aspects of hip-hop, the NON classic, the temporary.

Like, fuck, I downloaded a bunch of retarded Papoose freestyles. Do I regret spending as much time on them? Yeah. Did I suddenly stop thinking "And if I'm bleeding in the ER, don't supply me sorrow./Just pour some Hennessy into my IV bottle!" is an incredible line? No!

**PiLhead** · 16-10-2011, 05:01 PM

yeah some of the most indelible rap songs are one-offs or two-offs

Naughty by Nature, "o.p.P." and "hip hop hooray"
house of pain "jump"
rob base and ez rock, "it takes two"
the little dude that did "i wish i was a little bit taller"
juvenile, back that ass up
t la rock, eve, etc etc

(mind you you could say the same of radio rock -- "you ain't seen nothing yet", "rock me like a hurricane", "no rain" etc)

how come DMX is unmentioned

also cannibal ox, cold vein

^^^^^^^

glad to see luka thinks gang starr and tribe called Q are dull

so sue me, ialso find Nas a bit boring

**gumdrops** · 16-10-2011, 05:06 PM

i dont listen to it that much but wu tang forever is underrated. its also a bit boring and sluggish and sort of bloated but i like that about it. triumph is still anti climatic though. waiting for the new wu single then hearing how plodding it was was a big dissappointment.

I never really ended up memorising a single verse from OB4Clinx

criminology? verbal intercourse? glaciers of ice?!?!

i never got into liquid swords though. something about gza solo just irritated me. he was like the 'look how smart i am' nerd rapper in wu-tang.

**scarboi** · 16-10-2011, 09:01 PM

Any hip-hop canon that is 80% NYC rap from the early 80s-mid 90s leaves me a little cold. Seriously: where's the UGK, E-40?

Is this a generational divide thing?

Off the top of my head:

Outkast - Southerplayalisticadillacmusik (Just as good as ATLiens)
UGK - Riding Dirty
E-40 - In A Major Way
8ball & MJG - Coming Out Hard

How the hell does this shit get kicked out for Brand Nubian and Das EFX?

I'd even go to bat for TI's Trap Muzik.