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Thread: shakespeare

  1. #46
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    That speech is one there's been a lot of arguments over, isn't there? You seem to be of the same opinion as T.S. Eliot

    Him wot wrote

    I have always felt that I have never read a more terrible exposure of human weakness of universal human weakness than the last great speech of Othello.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  2. #47
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    I read what you wrote Jenks and I want to take your Year 7 Shakespeare class.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  3. #48
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    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  4. #49
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    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    I was looking at Lear for quotes about eyes for the eye thread and I was stopped in my tracks by the cruelty of this line:

    REGAN Go thrust him out at gates, and let him smell
    His way to Dover.
    proto-Cersei
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post


    Thanks for all of those Corpsey (my Y7s would probably appreciate you more than they currently do me) - I think the thing is that too often we divorce the speech from the play - without the context Othello's speech would be very different indeed. And I think that's why it's worth remembering it is a script, a heard and played thing, not only a written down thing. A bit like sheet music given to performers to make real.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    proto-Cersei
    There's also that great line by Gloucester - 'I see it feelingly'

  9. #53

  10. #54
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    I think it's fair to say that being force-fed Shakespeare probably puts some kids off literature. And that there could be a wider range of authors being studied. And tbh, the first time Shakespeare 'stuck' at school for me was at A level, reading 'Hamlet'. Before then I probably thought he was boring, confusing, hopelessly ancient.

    The 'he just wasn't very good' line isn't even laughable, because she doesn't go into it.

    Saying all this I do think Bardolatry is an obstacle in the way of appreciating Shakespeare.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  11. #55
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    For those who've not enountered Toltoy's famous attempted slewing of Shakespeare:

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tolstoy_on_Shakespeare

    And Orwell's essay on Tolstoy's hatred of Shakespeare

    http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/lear/english/e_ltf
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  13. #56

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    Her argument seems to be that he's rubbish because his language is archaic twaddle which discriminates against people with dyslexia, and he's not relevant to the modern world.

  14. #57
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    I was in my mid/late 20s before I felt I had gleaned any pleasure from Shakespeare. I couldn't make head or tail of it before that.

  15. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post

    Saying all this I do think Bardolatry is an obstacle in the way of appreciating Shakespeare.
    'The remarkable thing about Shakespeare is that he is really very good - in spite of all the people who say he is very good.
    Robert Graves
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  17. #59
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    This is going to sound obvious but...it's really a lot to do with how it's taught. I did some work with the RSC - a project for schools with little or no drama teaching - and it really changed my outlook. Despite being the home of the Bard, they weren't reverent at all - cutting lines/scenes where necessary and really working on seeing the text as something to play with.

    I also think which plays you study and when are also part of the problem - Much Ado may be a great play but all that witty 'banter' is really dead on the page in a classroom whereas 'I am in blood so far stepp'd (or steep'd, depending upon the version) that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er.' is something most young kids do know - the fuck it, I'm already in trouble I might as well continue. Most adults too...

    I hate that culture of low expectations that kids don't need to know this stuff. People hogging all the cultural capital for themselves...

  18. #60
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    I've been listening to Hamlet very disjointedly all week.

    Hamlet is the archetypal man who thinks too much. He seeks simplicity ceaselessly, but can't find it until death ("the rest is silence"). The toil of thought through and with language. Beauty itself a sort of fleeting simplicity, becoming complexity even as it unfurls itself. Eliot's description of the Chinese vase in Four Quartets.

    Anyway, this strikes me as being a common plague round these parts. Overactive brains harried by thoughts seeking some saving simplicity. (But bored instantly by any such discovery.) Dantean circle. But perhaps it's everyone, stuck at least in the hamster wheel of desire and lack.

    Hamlet is a well good play, though.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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