luka

Well-known member
im only part way through chapter one but go ahead and tell me what youve noticed.
im reading the republic as well and both books have the same pseudo argument structure. pretend logic. say some rambling nonsense then say, so we;ve proved ) so it follows that etc etc it makes me keep thinking ive missed something so i re read it and realise i havent it was never there.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
@rich - sorry then. thought you were real into Labour + all. I stand corrected. rearranging deck chairs is fine, so long as we're aware that's all it is.

@baboon - self-interest is at the heart of capitalism, crystallized in the form of commodity exchange. that is so deeply ingrained that I reckon most people can't even conceive of anything else. you can call it a collective neurosis if you want. which, again, welcome to situationism. friendly warning: if you follow this thought all the way to its end the only, inevitable outcome is crushing existential despair.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
@luka - I wrote my observations down but I lost them so I'll see if I can remember

-it's mostly things I know, instinctively or otherwise. dunno if that's cos his (or similar) has permeated so deeply into the collective unconscious in the last 150+ years
-the whole critique rests on the assumption of progress. the flaw is capitalism as a form of socioeconomic relation but progress itself is good or at least neutral
-it's not hard to understand but it's SO dry
-the periodic insults directed at contemporary rival economists are kind of hilarious/endearing
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
been listening pretty much exclusively to old death metal (i.e. the 88-93 the golden age) lately, including when I read this. not sure what effect it has on my reading.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I'm also reading the wretched of the earth right now, which I've started a couple times but never gotten through
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
@rich - sorry then. thought you were real into Labour + all. I stand corrected. rearranging deck chairs is fine, so long as we're aware that's all it is.

@baboon - self-interest is at the heart of capitalism, crystallized in the form of commodity exchange. that is so deeply ingrained that I reckon most people can't even conceive of anything else. you can call it a collective neurosis if you want. which, again, welcome to situationism. friendly warning: if you follow this thought all the way to its end the only, inevitable outcome is crushing existential despair.

well yeah, but crucially only their perception of their self-interest within a ?capitalist framework. which can't make anyone happy in and of itself since its basic premise is lack, always needing more however much one has.

opting out as much as one can from this, is to me the start of reversing that despair
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
does Marx do jokes*?

*like his brothers etc etc

Havent' read Wretched of the Earth, but have read Black Skin, White Masks - I like Fanon's style a lot
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I'm not here much cos it's blocked at work, but I am also about to start reading vol1. This time for real!

Consensus seems to be that chapter 1-3 is as hard as it gets. So persevere.
 

nomos

Administrator
I'm not here much cos it's blocked at work, but I am also about to start reading vol1. This time for real!

Consensus seems to be that chapter 1-3 is as hard as it gets. So persevere.
Ch 4 is when he reaches the moon - with the pinups and tubbby and all that ;)
 
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craner

Beast of Burden
We haven't heard a peep out of Luka for about a week now. Next time we do, he'll have turned into a Cold Rationalist Bolshevik Spinozist, you mark my words.
 

nomos

Administrator
the cold rationalist purges. the night of the long threads. we can't let history repeat itself.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
We haven't heard a peep out of Luka for about a week now. Next time we do, he'll have turned into a Cold Rationalist Bolshevik Spinozist, you mark my words.

Christ, I really hope not - that doesn't sound like it bodes well for one's sense of humour.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I'm about 150 pages in and it's a much better read than most things I've read about Marx.

Plus all this talk about communism etc at the beginning of this thread is getting waaaay ahead of ourselves. Capital vol1 so far has been a simple description of the commodity, value etc.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
you'd think he'd have a better understanding of dialectics after his protracted debate about secualisation with jurgen habermas :lol:
 
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