child psychopathy

Dr Awesome

Techsteppin'
In terms of children being labeled as "psychopaths" etc

This is a documentary about a girl with "Reactive Attachment Disorder" which I don't claim to know a lot about but fits in on the standard / mother wasn't there / father abused her / type scenario.


Anyway interesting as apparently she made a full recovery and now leads a normal life.
 

Local Authority

bitch city
Yes but to what extent? I think it would be very difficult to attribute sections of society to genetic make up.

Swings and roundabouts as Liam says, society influences our actions which in turn influence our society.

I'd dispute how far personality disorders are influenced by genetics. I won't deny it doesn't but I believe culture and society play a bigger part. I believe personality disorders are the product of how people with different genetic make react to society.

The reason PP's are labelled as such is because our society has rendered their personality traits useless, even detrimental, to the advancement of the 'clan'. Before in hunter-gatherer days they would be useful, you would have to be far more decisive and ruthless in shorter time as it could have been a matter of death. Before they would have been desirable traits, not so much any more.

My problem is them being branded 'disorders', because they all seem to have their uses as much as people without have their faults.
 

Patrick Swayze

I'm trying to shut up
Yes but to what extent? I think it would be very difficult to attribute sections of society to genetic make up.

Swings and roundabouts as Liam says, society influences our actions which in turn influence our society.

I'd dispute how far personality disorders are influenced by genetics. I won't deny it doesn't but I believe culture and society play a bigger part. I believe personality disorders are the product of how people with different genetic make react to society.

The reason PP's are labelled as such is because our society has rendered their personality traits useless, even detrimental, to the advancement of the 'clan'. Before in hunter-gatherer days they would be useful, you would have to be far more decisive and ruthless in shorter time as it could have been a matter of death. Before they would have been desirable traits, not so much any more.

My problem is them being branded 'disorders', because they all seem to have their uses as much as people without have their faults.

I suppose it's 'swings and roundabouts' in the sense that our genetics produce culture which in turn influences the way we evolve genetically which is then reflected in culture and so on...

it's been established capitalist society rewards psychopathy. mitt romney's probably psychopathic to some degree.
 

Local Authority

bitch city
I suppose it's 'swings and roundabouts' in the sense that our genetics produce culture which in turn influences the way we evolve genetically which is then reflected in culture and so on...

it's been established capitalist society rewards psychopathy. mitt romney's probably psychopathic to some degree.

I'm not sure culture has any lasting or substantial effect on how we evolve genetically.

I'm not denying capitalism doesn't promote it, because the capitalist system is psychopathic in its inherent nature. Not everyone strictly adheres to the capitalist system though. Not in the sense that Mitt Romney does, who appears to be a walking manifestation of it. I think its fair to say that the majority of people within the system frown down upon psychopathic behaviour, even fear it and treat it as unwanted and damaging personality trait.
 

Patrick Swayze

I'm trying to shut up
I'm not sure culture has any lasting or substantial effect on how we evolve genetically.

I'm not denying capitalism doesn't promote it, because the capitalist system is psychopathic in its inherent nature. Not everyone strictly adheres to the capitalist system though. Not in the sense that Mitt Romney does, who appears to be a walking manifestation of it. I think its fair to say that the majority of people within the system frown down upon psychopathic behaviour, even fear it and treat it as unwanted and damaging personality trait.
nah culture must effect evolution. culture dictates diet, life expectancy, sexual practices, work routines, family relations and so on

I think your outlook on the attitudes of the upper echelons of society is optimistic. they wouldn't directly recognise it as 'psychopathy' because psychopath has adopted a cultural meaning as a degrading term for criminals. but there's traits which are rewarded by business such as intelligence, selfishness, ruthlessness, calculation, willingness to take risks etc and they form part of the (at times paradoxical) psychopathic identity.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It seems to me that a lot of personality disorders are inherited culturally as opposed to biologically.

I read something good today - can't remember where, annoyingly - about how environmental conditions like exposure to germs and toxins, upbringing and wider culture all have an impact on which of our genes express themselves, and how they do so. A gene may or may not manifest a particular physiological trait depending on external factors that the individual is exposed to. So nurture actually has quite a big impact on nature (that the reverse is true is pretty obvious, since a child that's very difficult right from birth will elicit a different response from its parents and other people).

'A lot of personality disorders' is hard to quantify. You might well be right, I mean the classic thing is the violent, alcoholic father who hits his kids because his violent, alcoholic father hit him, and whose kids will likely turn out the same way*. But it's also clear that some disorders really are genetic, since they often manifest in babies that are very difficult right from birth and, as the article mentions, there are some measurable anatomical differences between the brains of people with conditions like psychopathy and normal people.

[*though even in this case, while the violence might be a learned trait it's also well known now that there are important genetic factors in being at risk of alcoholism]
 
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routes

we can delay.ay.ay...
i like this thread alot, i'd like to contribute if i wasn't spending 14 hours a day at the moment planning, teaching, marking and generally chasing after the little (and sometimes not so little) monstaz

i'm particularly interested in the connection between resilience (overcoming obstacles, seeing things thru) and that ruthless psycopathic risk-taking (risking getting things wrong, but doing it anyway) mentioned above ...
 

Patrick Swayze

I'm trying to shut up
i like this thread alot, i'd like to contribute if i wasn't spending 14 hours a day at the moment planning, teaching, marking and generally chasing after the little (and sometimes not so little) monstaz

i'm particularly interested in the connection between resilience (overcoming obstacles, seeing things thru) and that ruthless psycopathic risk-taking (risking getting things wrong, but doing it anyway) mentioned above ...

interesting. I think this notion of 'resilience' is what supports or allows the existence of the apparently contradictory combination of a manipulative, calculated nature and a willingness to take risks. that is, the risk taking is tempered by a resilient dislocation from society (and its punishments) and the strength of will to pursue a larger aim. the risks are taken within a macrocosm of manipulation and calculation. sometimes it works (i.e. taking financial risks within a capitalist system which will ultimately be forced to bail big business out), sometimes it doesn't (i.e. hitler's risky invasion of russia which ended up undermining his entire wider campaign in europe)
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
In terms of children being labeled as "psychopaths" etc

This is a documentary about a girl with "Reactive Attachment Disorder" which I don't claim to know a lot about but fits in on the standard / mother wasn't there / father abused her .

I love the fact that filming a six year old girl and showing it on television isn't seen as abusive at all. Patient confidentiality? Jesus Christ.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I love the fact that filming a six year old girl and showing it on television isn't seen as abusive at all. Patient confidentiality? Jesus Christ.

Yep, kinda getting to Six feet Under levels of fuckedupness (in the show Brenda/Rachel Griffiths' parents are psychoanalysts, and wrote a bestselling book about the study of their own child)
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I can't help thinking that having a psychoanalyst for a parent, let alone both parents, has got to be a sure-fire way of growing up into a total fuck-up. I'm probably wrong. I hope I am.
 

Patrick Swayze

I'm trying to shut up
well freud's grandkids or newphew/nieces in 'The Century of the Self' turned out alright in the end despite Anna Freud's best attempts to fuck them up lol.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
well freud's grandkids or newphew/nieces in 'The Century of the Self' turned out alright in the end despite Anna Freud's best attempts to fuck them up lol.

Wasn't his nephew the one who created PR to benefit corporate America? I'd say that qualifies as a massive fuck-up. Can't remember the other members of the family though....

@Tea - Definitely depends upon whether your parents are good or bad psychoanalysts! If your Dad was Winnicott you'd be more than OK. The problem is, there are a lot of bad psychoanalysts.
 

Patrick Swayze

I'm trying to shut up
Wasn't his nephew the one who created PR to benefit corporate America? I'd say that qualifies as a massive fuck-up. Can't remember the other members of the family though....

@Tea - Definitely depends upon whether your parents are good or bad psychoanalysts! If your Dad was Winnicott you'd be more than OK. The problem is, there are a lot of bad psychoanalysts.

yh cant remember exactly how they were all related but there was the Bernaise dude who I think (kinda forgot) was the guy who used psychoanalytic practices like free association to help companies market their products/ create desires.

and then there was the generation after him (maybe) who anna freud studied. they were worried one of the kids was gay so they probably did some fucked up shit to him.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Ah yes, Freud - everyone's favourite dick-obsesssed coke fiend.

well freud's grandkids or newphew/nieces in 'The Century of the Self' turned out alright in the end despite Anna Freud's best attempts to fuck them up lol.

As far as I recall from that programme, Anna Freud remained a virgin her whole life, probably not unrelated to an episode where as a girl she'd been caught wanking by her dear papa, who decided she had to be 'cured' by - of course - psychoanalysis.
 
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