Euro 2012
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
I take your point, Chelsea were pathetic going forward for almost all of the game. However, I still say their defence was outstanding, whoever is manager next season should seriously consider starting with Luiz and Cahill at centre half
yyaldrin
in je ogen waait de wind
Judging by the shirt numbers that got published today it seems that Huntelaar is going to be playing striker position, Sneijder is probably playing on 10 so I have no idea where to put Van Persie, on the right, on the left? They have Affelay and Robben playing there. I don't see the Dutch coming very far with them being in a poule together with Germany, Portugal and Denmark. Also considering their very poor defence, it's a joke really.
yyaldrin
in je ogen waait de wind
1. Maarten Stekelenburg
2. Gregory van der Wiel
3. John Heitinga
4. Joris Mathijsen
5. Wilfred Bouma
6. Mark van Bommel
7. Dirk Kuyt
8. Nigel de Jong
9. Klaas Jan Huntelaar
10. Wesley Sneijder
11. Arjen Robben
12. Michel Vorm
13. Ron Vlaar
14. Stijn Schaars
15. Jetro Willems
16. Robin van Persie
17. Kevin Strootman
18. Luuk de Jong
19. Luciano Narsingh
20. Ibrahim Afellay
21. Khalid Boulahrouz
22. Tim Krul
23. Rafael van der Vaart
2. Gregory van der Wiel
3. John Heitinga
4. Joris Mathijsen
5. Wilfred Bouma
6. Mark van Bommel
7. Dirk Kuyt
8. Nigel de Jong
9. Klaas Jan Huntelaar
10. Wesley Sneijder
11. Arjen Robben
12. Michel Vorm
13. Ron Vlaar
14. Stijn Schaars
15. Jetro Willems
16. Robin van Persie
17. Kevin Strootman
18. Luuk de Jong
19. Luciano Narsingh
20. Ibrahim Afellay
21. Khalid Boulahrouz
22. Tim Krul
23. Rafael van der Vaart
Not only that, a football match is one of the worst noises in the world.
Inchoate roaring, the whistley echo of booted ball, incessant peeping, periodic mass applause for nothing. It's aggressively alienating.
Looking forward to the Euros for the inevitable violence and water cannon though.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Get yourself warmed up here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jk4vr/Panorama_Euro_2012_Stadiums_of_Hate/
Its good to see so little hype regarding England's chances. I do think England potentially have one of the best defences in the competition in Terry, Cahill, Cole and Johnson though (as much as I hate the fact Terry is going). I can see England losing all the group games and can also just about (at a stretch) imagine us winning it.
I agree with paulo though, if I were going to make a large bet it would be on Germany, they usually overachieve and this German team is the strongest I can remember.
I agree with paulo though, if I were going to make a large bet it would be on Germany, they usually overachieve and this German team is the strongest I can remember.
Did you watch the first leg of Barcelona v Chelsea? Cahill, Terry and Cole were brilliant in that game. I know the supposed lessons of Chelsea's Champs league win can be easily overstated, but if those 3 can reproduce that sort of form, with Hart in goal, England should have a strong defensive unit.
e/y
Well-known member
Equally you could point to Terry ending up on his arse several times this season, in particular against Liverpool.
Chelsea were playing against Barcelona in a way that England cannot at the Euros (for one, England cannot sit that deep, which means Terry will have to play higher up and be exposed to pace), not to mention that a midfield of Parker / Lampard or Gerrard (judging by the Norway game, Hodgeson will use two rather than three there) will not offer the same protection / positional discipline as Lampard / Mikel / Meirelles.
Chelsea were playing against Barcelona in a way that England cannot at the Euros (for one, England cannot sit that deep, which means Terry will have to play higher up and be exposed to pace), not to mention that a midfield of Parker / Lampard or Gerrard (judging by the Norway game, Hodgeson will use two rather than three there) will not offer the same protection / positional discipline as Lampard / Mikel / Meirelles.
So are you saying that England's defence is weak compared to other Euro 2012 teams? Terry obviously doesnt have the pace he used to but I'd still pick him ahead of Per Mertesacker for instance. Imo England have a stronger defence than Germany and Spain, they are just an incoherent mess everywhere else.
e/y
Well-known member
not all teams obviously (France are worse, I think), but I do think that Germany and Spain have better defences. for example, I think Terry is a better player than Mertesaker, but a partnership of Hummels and Per is better than Terry and Cahill.
well yes. like I said, if England had a better central midfield, then Terry and Cahill could work. but they don't. defences don't operate in isolation, they are part of a system. another example - I think it's fair to say that, when you look at them individually, Arsenal have three / four quite good defenders. but they don't work well as a unit and in combination with the players ahead of them - record number of goals let in this season and all.
if you look at a team like Ukraine, quite obviously their players aren't as good as England's, but I think their defensive unit will work better.
well yes. like I said, if England had a better central midfield, then Terry and Cahill could work. but they don't. defences don't operate in isolation, they are part of a system. another example - I think it's fair to say that, when you look at them individually, Arsenal have three / four quite good defenders. but they don't work well as a unit and in combination with the players ahead of them - record number of goals let in this season and all.
if you look at a team like Ukraine, quite obviously their players aren't as good as England's, but I think their defensive unit will work better.
e/y
Well-known member
no, I mean that the game against Barcelona took place under different circumstances than the Euros. Chelsea were in a knockout match, England have to play group games first. so they have to be at least somewhat proactive. I still think Hodgson will have the team counter attacking, but Chelsea were in a very specific situation - they were very narrow and incredibly deep, and against a very attacking side they only had to counter a few times; the rest of the game they sat back. this meant that Terry and Cahill didn't have much space behind them, they had 3 to 5 players packed right in front blocking out Barcelona's passes. also, this was one isolated game.
England's first game is against France - ok, you could say that they can mostly sit back in that game and try to get something on the counter. but if they lose, then they have to win against two teams who will be very defensive, who will sit deep and invite England to attack, which I think may expose the flaws England's back four / midfield.
dunno, I could be completely wrong, but I really think that Ferdinand would have been a better partner for either Terry (in a footballing sense, anyway, away from the other stuff)or Cahill.
wrt to the press - I'm pretty sure Hodgson is fucked whatever he does.
England's first game is against France - ok, you could say that they can mostly sit back in that game and try to get something on the counter. but if they lose, then they have to win against two teams who will be very defensive, who will sit deep and invite England to attack, which I think may expose the flaws England's back four / midfield.
dunno, I could be completely wrong, but I really think that Ferdinand would have been a better partner for either Terry (in a footballing sense, anyway, away from the other stuff)or Cahill.
wrt to the press - I'm pretty sure Hodgson is fucked whatever he does.
IdleRich
IdleRich
True enough. And I agree with what you're saying about those specific matches. But I do think that the press does weigh so heavy on managers that sometimes they can't play the way they want to - I think that Graham Taylor is a good example of that cos he was amazingly successful with Watford and Villa playing a long ball game that he was effectively not allowed to take with him when he managed England. That's how I remember it anyway. With hindsight I feel very sorry for him, expected to get results but effectively banned from playing to his strengths with all his previous successes buried under memories of "Do I not like that?"... but I digress.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Only just realised Carrick isn't in the squad (shows how much attention I've been paying), apparently because he refused a place unless he was promised he was first choice midfield.
What the fucking fuck? I never had him down as an arrogant pillock, so presumably he just doesn't fancy playing football this summer.
What the fucking fuck? I never had him down as an arrogant pillock, so presumably he just doesn't fancy playing football this summer.
