The Dissensus Poorly Titled Spiritual Jazz Thread

forclosure

Well-known member
@WebEschatology ! we finally find common ground! i didn't like that album either, it was exactly what i thought it would be like.
i'd like to think i liked alot of the albums from this specific strain of jazz had more to them than just being "spiritual" there's a specific political and black radical conscious in there aswell.

honestly its an "ok" album but its ok in the same way to pimp a butterfly was ok, albums made as a idea rather than any kind of function
 

forclosure

Well-known member
honestly the album reminds me of when Trim did that album with James Blake where it felt like it was more about Blakes production first and Trim second which isn't what i came for lol

i care about Pharoah Sanders(who i really didn't need to hear doing awkward vocalisation stuff) but i do not care for the white Manchester guy
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
honestly the album reminds me of when Trim did that album with James Blake where it felt like it was more about Blakes production first and Trim second which isn't what i came for lol

i care about Pharoah Sanders(who i really didn't need to hear doing awkward vocalisation stuff) but i do not care for the white Manchester guy
There was one good tune on that Trim one. I liked hearing introspective Trim. But yeah the rest of it did not click.
 

ghost of pat

New member
honestly its an "ok" album but its ok in the same way to pimp a butterfly was ok, albums made as a idea rather than any kind of function

It's not an OK album. And even if it was that's not acceptable. But it just isn't. It's the sound of exactly what it is. A guy with negligible talent for music-making and production who was lucky enough to get hyped from the right corners (and will continue to ride that horse until he can't no more) but doesn't have much going by way of imagination, depth or soul, who was given an opportunity to work with a legend, but, when faced with the moment of truth drew a blank and did all he could in his moment of desperation, tried to remain tasteful. So he sets up a very bland, by numbers musical theme which he will return to over and over throughout the piece. This gives it the air of well-considered minimal composition, tarts it up all nice with his expensive studio gear, and prays that Sanders will be able to fill in the other 95%. But the problem with that way of working is you need to set up a bed that Sanders can catch a vibe off of, and it's evident that FP didn't deliver. That's why you've forgotten it all before it's over. FP should be given the red card and only allowed to come back after 6 months of meditation in a Peruvian cave.

The work ticks all the boxes as far as signifiers go. It sounds good on paper. But irl, it's a load o shite.

0/5
 

forclosure

Well-known member
It's not an OK album. And even if it was that's not acceptable. But it just isn't. It's the sound of exactly what it is. A guy with negligible talent for music-making and production who was lucky enough to get hyped from the right corners (and will continue to ride that horse until he can't no more) but doesn't have much going by way of imagination, depth or soul, who was given an opportunity to work with a legend, but, when faced with the moment of truth drew a blank and did all he could in his moment of desperation, tried to remain tasteful. So he sets up a very bland, by numbers musical theme which he will return to over and over throughout the piece. This gives it the air of well-considered minimal composition, tarts it up all nice with his expensive studio gear, and prays that Sanders will be able to fill in the other 95%. But the problem with that way of working is you need to set up a bed that Sanders can catch a vibe off of, and it's evident that FP didn't deliver. That's why you've forgotten it all before it's over. FP should be given the red card and only allowed to come back after 6 months of meditation in a Peruvian cave.

The work ticks all the boxes as far as signifiers go. It sounds good on paper. But irl, it's a load o shite.

0/5
i mean all that is true and i agree but you know what i mean when i say its "ok" i mean in the sense that there's nothing on it that'll cause any offence even TPAB there's people who are still touchy feely about the "we hate po-po" line in Alright but that album nah nothing of the sort.

Honestly i don't even think 6 months would be enough he needs to be in there much longer and on that note we should stick Bradley Zero in there with him.
 

forclosure

Well-known member
I know he's old now and Sanders doesn't have the same kind of fire he did when he made Black Unity(which apprently people compared the album to and it doesn't have ANYTHING that i liked about Black Unity on there) but goddamn you get the guy who had a hand in making some of the most demanding music Coltrane ever made....and yet all the focus and praise is on the white lad.


Man forget London and New York i'm beginning to think that Manchester is the city that's coasted on its past accomplishments for far too long
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
It's not an OK album. And even if it was that's not acceptable. But it just isn't. It's the sound of exactly what it is. A guy with negligible talent for music-making and production who was lucky enough to get hyped from the right corners (and will continue to ride that horse until he can't no more) but doesn't have much going by way of imagination, depth or soul, who was given an opportunity to work with a legend, but, when faced with the moment of truth drew a blank and did all he could in his moment of desperation, tried to remain tasteful. So he sets up a very bland, by numbers musical theme which he will return to over and over throughout the piece. This gives it the air of well-considered minimal composition, tarts it up all nice with his expensive studio gear, and prays that Sanders will be able to fill in the other 95%. But the problem with that way of working is you need to set up a bed that Sanders can catch a vibe off of, and it's evident that FP didn't deliver. That's why you've forgotten it all before it's over. FP should be given the red card and only allowed to come back after 6 months of meditation in a Peruvian cave.

The work ticks all the boxes as far as signifiers go. It sounds good on paper. But irl, it's a load o shite.

0/5
yeah. its basically boring.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
i listened to that Floating Points/ Pharoah Sanders (who am i kidding Sanders is barely on it) album that people were praising so much last year


really REALLY didn't like it and it confirmed alot of worries i had about this current "focus" on spiritual jazz

I thought it was rubbish too.
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
i mean all that is true and i agree but you know what i mean when i say its "ok" i mean in the sense that there's nothing on it that'll cause any offence even TPAB there's people who are still touchy feely about the "we hate po-po" line in Alright but that album nah nothing of the sort.

Honestly i don't even think 6 months would be enough he needs to be in there much longer and on that note we should stick Bradley Zero in there with him.
to pimp a butterfly i will come out swinging on though. @luka @luka @luka it reminds me of sitting on minibuses driving up and down the coast in lebanon @luka @luka @luka , which i did as part of my neverending gap year. didn't get it at first, but after a few listens it started to click (having Blacker the Berry as a way in helped me persevere with all the brass and funk sounds that normally makes something in me flinch).

have gone off it a bit now but lyrically i think its immense. think he found an oblique and effective way of getting at some complex things. art gallery stuff i know. but i love that kind of thing. self-expression and all of that.
 

forclosure

Well-known member
to pimp a butterfly i will come out swinging on though. @luka @luka @luka it reminds me of sitting on minibuses driving up and down the coast in lebanon @luka @luka @luka , which i did as part of my neverending gap year. didn't get it at first, but after a few listens it started to click (having Blacker the Berry as a way in helped me persevere with all the brass and funk sounds that normally makes something in me flinch).

have gone off it a bit now but lyrically i think its immense. think he found an oblique and effective way of getting at some complex things. art gallery stuff i know. but i love that kind of thing. self-expression and all of that.
i didn't find it "oblique" at all to be honest (also this thread ain't the place so if you want to talk to me about this album else where i'm game)

also how do you flinch at funk and brass sounds? did you have to grow up listening to those english trad jazz bands in your village or something?
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
i was walking over a bridge in copenhagen in the summer @luka @luka @luka, totally exhausted, and freezing (definitely needed a coat), this one came on and it literally stopped me in my tracks, had never paid much attention to the words before but in that specific moment i thought they were incredible

 

shakahislop

Well-known member
i didn't find it "oblique" at all to be honest (also this thread ain't the place so if you want to talk to me about this album else where i'm game)

also how do you flinch at funk and brass sounds? did you have to grow up listening to those english trad jazz bands in your village or something?
yeah. i mean all of that depends on what you've heard before and what you're used to doesn't it. i guess on TPAB i find a layer of what i suppose is called allegory that's something i've come across much more in books than hiphop. though i know you're an authority on the latter, and obviously the hiphop i listen to is probably the most basic end lyrically.

on the funk thing in particular, it's been hard to decode it in my brain from 80s american cheese.

you have so much thread discipline!
 

forclosure

Well-known member
yeah. i mean all of that depends on what you've heard before and what you're used to doesn't it. i guess on TPAB i find a layer of what i suppose is called allegory that's something i've come across much more in books than hiphop. though i know you're an authority on the latter, and obviously the hiphop i listen to is probably the most basic end lyrically.

on the funk thing in particular, it's been hard to decode it in my brain from 80s american cheese.

you have so much thread discipline!
number 1) there's alot of good 80's funk and i think we've generally gotten to a point culturally where people are happy to admit that there was good music from the decade that didn't just have Prince's hands in the mix (whether its in spite of the cheese factor or partially because of it i don't know) maybe you're just one of those guys who only likes funk from the late 70s backwards there's alot of guys like that still(now that i think about it i'd be interested to know your feelings on say Loose Ends, Junior or the streets sounds R&B that came out of Britian in the 80s)

You're right about there being a level of allegory there but i just wanna say you have to be careful with that kind of comparison cause when you do that just like when people compare rappers lyrics to " a well written novel" you're kinda saying that they play 2nd fiddle to the white literary canon. You're right maybe the stuff that you tend to listen to is "basic" it might not have the thoughtfulness or density as certain other rap but there's more than a handful of guys out there who've been able to be potent and strong and thought provoking as any of the more technical lot.

also funny you say i have "thread discipline" cause i don't feel like i do and honestly i still dislike forums in general
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Would throw these in the mixes thread but there’s too much crossover. The core tracks all belong here

Pete Woosh rip, Bolton massive and DiY general, playing across different moods with more than a few Pharaoh S tracks and a range of suitable accompaniments, from baroque exotica to Alice Coltrane

 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
Went to see him on the first night of a 3 night stint at the jazz cafe some time in '08. Was totally blown away. Not that I didn't have high expectations going in but to have him there in front of you, this huge presence taking up the stage physically and sonically, the air thick with vibes deep as the Mariana Trench, it was nothing short of spellbinding. It felt like he'd kept himself totally intact since the 70s. Hadn't been swept along and corrupted by time. This was the same Pharoah from the records I'd been in love with since discovering him a decade earlier via Gilles P. He was a rock of wisdom and love, firmly rooted on his own ancestral turf, delivering his sermon with all the charge and conviction of a cosmic baptist. Intoxicating. I went again the following night and it was even heavier. Took along a friend who was totally uninitiated to jazz and she was converted right there on the spot. Easily two of the best live performances I've ever seen.
 
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