Oooh you handsome devil!

blissblogger

Well-known member
DMX looks like the master race or something

LL Cool J looked really good in the 80s, but his current flowerpot man hat and thin mustache look is putrid, esp in combo with all those pandering-to-the-women loverman lyrics. plus he's way too muscley now , definitely verging on that eeuggh-gross freak quality of musclebuilding mags (which i find horribly compelling, in the same way that looking at a medical textbook full of goitres and deformities is horribly compelling)

the even more sticky area is to then deal with the role of female pulchritude in music (from the male het viewpoint)

it's obviously just as important, yet doesn't always i think have to be on the 'phwooargh, i'd like to...' level

like grace slick is just witchy cool... or Siouxsie...
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
Trim is well fit. he has lovely smile.
see the aim high dvd for evidence.
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
Obviously, male looks have been a big part of my appreciation of Pop (much more so in my uh formative years than female looks, partly coz I was hardly interested in anything by women back then).... but I would want to see two things about that;

1. I have absolutely no problem with the idea that this is repressed homosexuality except that I don't think it is. It's taken as obvious that swooning for looks is 'sexual' but it doesn't strike me as self-evident. The relationship between swooning over beauty and sexual congress is actually quite obscure...why would that be the thing to do when confronting human beauty? (In fact, the appeal of Lad pin-ups like Jennifer Ellison and Abi Titmus is exactly that they are not TOO beautiful... because excessive beauty is too breathtaking to be reduced to wank fodder, too problematic , overpowering...)

2. The current dearth of radicality in Pop has surely a great deal to do with the rise of a certain model of the unadorned (as the) masculine (as the) 'real'. Hip hop fashion, still, TWENTY FUCKING YEARS ON, dominant to the point of uniform amongst teenage males is a way of saying, 'I don't really care about clothes except as economic status symbols...' (cos given that sportswear looks totally shit, the only appeal can be how much it cost). Tthis is complemented by that 'we're just wearing our ordinary clothes' conspicuous unpretentiousness of the likes of Elbow, Athlete (jeez their very NAMES bespeak a crushing quotidian depression) in the student-indie crowd. (I know this is fashion rather than 'beauty' strictly speaking).
 

Woebot

Well-known member
k-punk said:
2. The current dearth of radicality in Pop has surely a great deal to do with the rise of a certain model of the unadorned (as the) masculine (as the) 'real'. Hip hop fashion, still, TWENTY FUCKING YEARS ON, dominant to the point of uniform amongst teenage males is a way of saying, 'I don't really care about clothes except as economic status symbols...' (cos given that sportswear looks totally shit, the only appeal can be how much it cost). Tthis is complemented by that 'we're just wearing our ordinary clothes' conspicuous unpretentiousness of the likes of Elbow, Athlete (jeez their very NAMES bespeak a crushing quotidian depression) in the student-indie crowd. (I know this is fashion rather than 'beauty' strictly speaking).

Aw but you know SO MUCH CARE ges into into precisely what trainers and t-shirts. people like (fr'instance) d double and wiley, they're in sportswear yes, but they're immaculately groomed.

but yes i do get your point as well. there IS a sense with sportswear that it appears no "choice" is being asserted by the wearer.

and YES, ordinary clothes in indie. the last really great dresser in music i can think of is Tricky. Always looked immaculately cool. and funnily enough he was the last person in recen memory to donna dress too wasnt he? perhaps some awareness of the "problematic" exhibited in that?
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
WOEBOT said:
Aw but you know SO MUCH CARE ges into into precisely what trainers and t-shirts. people like (fr'instance) d double and wiley, they're in sportswear yes, but they're immaculately groomed.

I know; it's not just thrown on, but it's a neurotic rather than a flamboyant caring about their appearance...

was thinking about this in relation to 'blackness' in general and how it is taken to be a synonym for 'street' now... just think about Hendrix and Miles and p-funk... how OFFWORLD 'black' used to be...

but yes i do get your point as well. there IS a sense with sportswear that it appears no "choice" is being asserted by the wearer.

in a sense, the reverse though.... too much choice, too much autonomy, is being flaunted.. because otherwise they would be literally fashion victims... there's a lot of that with teenage males, the sportswear uniform is easy because it stops them feeling in any danger of looking 'silly'...

and YES, ordinary clothes in indie. the last really great dresser in music i can think of is Tricky. Always looked immaculately cool. and funnily enough he was the last person in recen memory to donna dress too wasnt he? perhaps some awareness of the "problematic" exhibited in that?

For boys, yes, but Roisin Murphy is incredible for galz...
 

ripley

Well-known member
I wonder about that generalization of hip-hop fashion.. seems like at least they can be in contrast - not a lot of functionality in jewel-studded grills.

which leads me to the different strains of hiphop and fashion, OutKast, for example.. and so-called "pimp style", for example Snoop with his long curls and fedoras, and, um, roller skates in the Snoop Dogg (DO double Gizzee) video..

Also seconding that sportswear can be immaculate, as well as gleaming, streamlined, futuristic.. seems more than just economic . There's also a lot of "science" referred to in the marketing of trainers, I don't know if that's how they function symbolically in hiphop. and there's also the collecter's attitude towards trainers - limited editions and that. Still, probably the case that it can be acceptable because sportswear resonates with "ordinary guy" clothing.
 

jed_

Well-known member
there's something just incredibly depressing about the dearth of real style in all areas of music now, though. Tricky was a one off, a true original in every aspect and maybe my last major musical crush (until justin timberlake but that's much more predictable). Roll Deep look pretty awful in that picture sean linked but no better or worse, to my mind, than the guys in the indie bands mark hates so much... but i tend to go for the guys in the converse all stars over the guys in nike air IRL too.
 

jed_

Well-known member
ripley said:
There's also a lot of "science" referred to in the marketing of trainers, I don't know if that's how they function symbolically in hiphop.

as little as i see of any of the cultural stuff i'm interested in on TV, BBC's Culture show still dragged out that old trainer fetish/collector thing for another sketch last week and, while i sighed at having to watch that one more time, i knew i'd still have to watch it countless times again. It seems to me to be completely manufactured in every sense.
 

owen

Well-known member
k-punk and jd are spot on here, it's rather depressing.

mind you aren't the franz/libertines neo-britpop axis trying to revive this somewhat? neat hair, suits and whatnot. they can't really pull it off though, but the intention is there. going to vaguely 'indie' nights in my manor of late things are definitely improving, though there's still too much greasy hair and jeans for my liking (stands up straight, grips cane)

re- roll deep, scratchy is pretty magnetic live. plus girls hair, mad staring eyes etc....

martin's comment upthread about 'theorists' looking shit can be disproved thus-
 

owen

Well-known member
(that pic of edwyn collins is quite something, by the way)

also, the kompakt lot are often immaculately turned out, superpitcher in particular-
 

owen

Well-known member
there was a moment a few years ago (especially circa the 'she's a bitch' video) where that 'offworld' thing was coming back to some extent, when r&b was getting all futurist - the cover to missy's 'da real world' (posted gratuitously below) which i still think looks awesome...

also the andre3000 and (to some extent) snoop school of crimping and nice coats is kind of important- its a shame though that wearing nice coats has to be so indelibly associated with misogyny, in the whole pimp angle though that's been true since what, the '40s? i remember a good debate in a magazine ( i think it was in 'cheap date' though i'm not sure if i want to admit to reading that) between a group of 'rockers' and 'hip hoppers' (cough) as to who dresses better- a lot of the arguments of the latter were of the 'you look like a fag' variety and the former 'ha your trousers are wide' (both looked awful in the pics) but they did eventually agree on outkast. too much yellow involved there for my liking though.
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
dainty boys

>Kompakt

that's why it's called 'metrohaus' !

>sportswear/street

there is a link though between the look of miles (or the cover of on the corner with its pimpadelic street scene) and Earth Wind and Fire, and the sportswear look in bashment/grime/etc, and that is a/ the sheer garishness of the colours b/ the shiny man-made fabric futuristicness thing. you get close to some of these guys and you don't want to inhale cos they're probably giving off all kinds of chemicals like a new soaf.

D Double E looks so dainty and immaculate in head to foot purple. Bruza looks dapper with his stovepipe-redolent Dr Seuss cap. but others i agree look just hideous. but is quite extreme, a form of dandyism
 

ripley

Well-known member
jed_ said:
as little as i see of any of the cultural stuff i'm interested in on TV, BBC's Culture show still dragged out that old trainer fetish/collector thing for another sketch last week and, while i sighed at having to watch that one more time, i knew i'd still have to watch it countless times again. It seems to me to be completely manufactured in every sense.

Not sure what you mean here, about manufactured. manufactured, in the sense that all fashion and hype is manufactured, yes. do you mean more manufactured than some other collector-fetish?

the science I was referring to was the sports/physics science in a lot of sneakers, in line with the futuristic themes.

And the futuristic stuff popped up elsewhere, there was Busta and Missy doing cyber-goth a few years ago, as well.

and yeah Owen, good point - the fabulous coat thing is so symbolically linked to pimping - but the gender politics are quite weird there.. almost like "see, I'm not girly, just because I'm wearing broacde.. I can still exploit women"
 

dubplatestyle

Well-known member
there's most certainly a metrosexual strain that runs through current hip-hop. without a doubt. when you've got guys in articles telling you to rotate your choice of kicks daily and clean that shit with a toothbrush (!), there's some serious attention to detail going on there. plus with the whole post-kanye/"fuck a throwback give me a button-up" look, there's a definite push towards "dressing up", at least in the preppie sense. (all the fashion ads in vibe and the source are very baggy banana republic. it's as if the actual role of tommy h's clothes is finally coming home to roost.) i think if you're dismissing this while lamenting the sort of "james brown owns 70 custom tailored suits" or "new wave bands dressed so posh" thing, you're just not moving with the times.

also, yes, TI looks fucking fabulous and exerts a tremendous charisma that's got a lot to do with sexuality for me. (a lot of my lack of interest in rap recently comes from that, i think, the lack of an overpowering charsima. paul wall has nice teeth, but he's no TI.) when they dressed him up for that vibe cover story in those immaculate suits i was blown away.

i think i care about this shit so much because i dress like a hobo.
 

mms

sometimes
of course you can go to far on the smart suits thing and be paul weller which would be terrible.
sportswear and hip hop casual has a funny history, the cover of paid in full for instance with eric b and rakim in gucci tracksuits, or run dmc, one of the best dressed hip hop act's deal with addidas and bringing out their own range of clothing onwards to jz and rebok nowdays.

it's at a bit of a nadir now in the uk cos it's all part of the same vaccum, sloppy trackies etc are cheap and easy and no problem to look after, it's same bag as ready meals and playstation imo.
 

monkeysblood

born to cry
I've been wanting to mention for a while that I thought Riko was well horny in Aim High 2..
...disturbingly he began warning me against such feelings, as the clip filmed in the studio ran through.

shame.
 

Woebot

Well-known member
blissblogger said:
the even more sticky area is to then deal with the role of female pulchritude in music (from the male het viewpoint)

it's obviously just as important, yet doesn't always i think have to be on the 'phwooargh, i'd like to...' level

like grace slick is just witchy cool... or Siouxsie...

i've been thinking about this.

and yes you're right. in some ways its easier to reflect upon "male beauty", appreciate it for what it is, and pass on it :)

distractingly sexy women in music! indeed that is a sticky topic. actually in the field of "alternative music" (excuse the shorthand) i think sexy girls are quite hard to come by. actually when i have a reaction it tends to be kinda swoony, imbued with ambitious romanticism. its almost always inspired by sound too, like for instance joni mitchell's "blue" or vashti bunyan's "another diamond day"

charismatic looking women in music?!? they almost always seem to be "unnattractive" to some degree, making the best of themselves, like Missy before she lost all her weight. kim gordon, who i don't fancy in the least, always looks cool. nico, well i'm sure olly craner probably finds her becoming, she leaves me cold, but stuns me with her elegance too.

of the punk girls its only the young vivienne goldman i find really fruity. have you seen that super-sexy photo of her and with john lydon in the background looking lascivious. she's divine.
 
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