Four More Yearses

johneffay

Well-known member
dominic said:
Not to oversimplify things, but everything that was ever great about American culture came from the North, not only WASP spiritual discipline

How do you define this? It sounds dreadful.
 

JimO'Brien

Active member
I presume WASP spiritual discipline is another version of Weber's Protestant Work Ethic. Whether this is something to be celebrated is another question. In Saturday's Guardian there was an interesting aside by Simon hoggart on the influence of Ulster Scots emigration to the US in determining the vote.

I trust at least Mr K-P is happy now the Catholic menance has been defeated from taking over the US as well as EU.
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
"everything good about america came from the north" is admittedly hyberbolic. but sometimes i like to use broad brushstrokes . . . . yes, i meant to invoke Weber & tease K-Punk with the expression "WASP spiritual discipline." and whatever ills may be attributed to the Protestant mindset, e.g., the rule of the professional classes in modern society, the dominance of professional values, i think that mindset preferable to that of a corrupt, slave-holding society. and the slave-holder mindset certainly has its spiritual heir in the texas oil-country mindset. exploit the slave, exploit the earth, why find recourse in your own disciplined work & labor when life can be so EASY? . . . . none of which is to suggest that i don't prefer leisure to work, night time to daytime, intoxication to sobriety . . . . i mean only to suggest that i think the paradigmatic WASP culture of the North superior to the ice tea-sipping, slave-whipping, oil-drilling culture of the South . . . . And certainly there are Southerners who have been at odds with Southern culture, and Northerners at odds with Northern culture . . . . And certainly there is much that is noble and gallant in Southern culture . . . . But at the end of the day, to make sense of this election, resort to caricature
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
as for Catherine's remark that "WASP spiritual discipline" sounds dreadful . . . . well, I'd probably never choose it for myself (too unpleasant), but K-Punk is basically correct when he argues that spiritual discipline is necessary for cultural achievement by the individual (as opposed to by the scene, the massive, the faithful). modern & ancient Greek culture celebrate the individual. medieval & Catholic culture are about abnegation of the self. spiritual discipline raises the self . . . . and it's also a necessary condition for the successful organization, the successful organization man . . . . that is, isn't it obvious that without discipline, nothing much gets accomplished??? . . . . say what you will about america today, but it has its share of past accomplishments . . . . and isn't the problem with america today its pervasive lack of spiritual discipline?
 
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dominic

Beast of Burden
definition of spiritual discipline = (1) the protestant who, fearing the wrath of god, shuns the voluptuous exteriority of Italy and makes solid his inner faith through work, labor, toil; (2) the slave who, faced with death by the lord's hand, renders his preconceptions about himself more than mere foolish vanity through work, labor, toil, until he eventually has real talent; (3) the existentialist who, prodded by anxiety, redeems empty words, worn-out values, dead gods but getting in tune with the voice of being; (4) the ordinary family man, as presented by Saul Bellow's Sammler, who works long hours at the office, saves his earnings, exercises regularly, drinks in moderation, reads literature or something equally "demanding" at night, respects tradition and adheres to "common sense," doesn't rock the boat [the key to American power]; (5) the BwO, which in some modalities enacts a kind of spiritual discipline (masochism, fasting, cold chill of heroin), and in others frees itself (the "self" dissolving in the frenzy of the dancing crowd, the power of the ecstasy rush), but which in all cases is not pulsillanimous, determined by bodily appetite or by fear . . . . However, with definitions (1), (2), and (3) spiritual discipline has the character of steadfast resolve, with definition (4) spiritual discipline is an ordinary virtue, and with definition (5) spiritual discipline is a transitory state that one may enter and leave, but which constitutes a kind of resistance
 
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