The Middle East/Islam as a trope in electronic music

this all kinda echoes the tarantino thread.... to borrow from rich's quote, don't make films about slavery just because you think its sounds cool (to do so).

but that's when you bring in politics and actual issues - in terms of simply using instruments and tropes from other countries, the only question you can really ask is, is it good? What about East Flatbush Project? Doubt they have koto jam sessions every week.

Of course, none of this is an excuse for Damon Albarn.

and no, there is no worse start to a sentence

Slothrop said:

Or is exoticism in itself problematic beyond what it does (or doesn't do) for the music?

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I guess when I say "engage" I don't mean just tasteful, muso appreciation (though you can do that) I mean engage like it has to somehow be a two-way conversation. wu-tang's kungfu schtick worked so well cos those dudes (or at least RZA + GZA, I dunno about everyone else or not) legitimately loved that stuff and used as ingredient to create something new. whereas, think about something like Fedde Le Grand - Put Your Hands Up For Detroit, which has nothing to do with Detroit techno or the city itself and just uses "Detroit" as a signifier to piggyback itself on that legacy (of course in that case it helps that the song also just sucks). but I dunno, I'm def not into policing ethnic drum samples or such nonsense. I love those Shackleton skull disko records but also plenty of things that are lo-if/cheap and/or in bad taste. actually good v. bad taste, w/all the underlying class tones, are a big piece of what you're talking about w/"genuine" appreciation" and the like.

& this too http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?6298-Timbaland-Steals-Arabic-Music

This sample has always grated on me.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fwv9IAKajc4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I think Fatima Al Qadiri is interesting amongst some of this, because there's obviously a lot of genuine reference to her growing up in Kuwait, forms of Middle-Eastern pop and Islamism (especially in the Ayshay work) - but at the same time it's all through this very considered Dis Magazine/'art' lens, so the results have this strange sort of web-art 'academic' vibe that feels quite Western.

That Tate performance is beautiful though.

Mr. Tea said:

Well if it's a given that cherry-picking samples for "exotic flavour" is bad

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I don't think it's a given at all - I think it's one of those weird statements that people make without actually thinking about whether it's true or not. Like when people get all frothy about complete artistic self-determination, while forgetting that they like Motown and Studio 1.

Cheap exoticism has been a part of great pop music since forever, the real question isn't whether or not they've respectfully integrated oriental scales and structures into the fabric of their music, it's whether the tune is actually any cop or not.

Interesting thread this.
Probably stating the obvious as usual, but in relation to the discussion in the last few posts I think it's perfectly possible to recognize that a musical project is politically or even morally problematic while at the same time accepting that it works well when considered simply as music.

I really need to listen to more Vatican Shadow, still catching up.

There's a certain... I don't know, background thing to be at hand.

Let's take the Cabs/Ministry parallel. Obviously, Cabaret came from a much more dadaist/Burroughsian inspired background, and Burroughs himself had a darker esoteric fascination with the Arabian culture, and things of that nature. But for someone like a Al Jourgenson, who's career is based out of attacking similar targets, but trying to do it in such a more American way, where the guitar is an extension of rebellion theatrics that gathers more or less identifiably anti-establishment types. Whereas in his earlier technologically improvising era, he had to work alongside people coming from more dance and/or commercial based backgrounds, who probably didn't see the point of making songs lampooning Evangelist culture.

Obviously all of his ideas are dilluted through various industrial groups, but it's in a similar spirit. But the thing is, for a drug addict who's working on going after this vastly imposing cultural presence and being 'haunted' by the specter of Christianity in Middle America, he's then looking at Islam through that same lens, and isn't able to pick up on the fine details.

I don't know why I had to launch into a defense of Ministry. Maybe just because I'm trying to articulate the logic behind the cheaper theatrics in it's more positive aspects. It's still kind of simple, comparatively to a Cabaret Voltaire's approach, but it's more or less because he's also trying to sell it to middle-Americans coming out of heavy metal and punk, whereas the Cabs only dealt with their fanbase as it grew, and never had to 'seduce' people.

http://soundcloud.com/rebootfm/dj-zhao-fusion-5_apocalypse

STREAM: MIXCLOUD // DOWNLOAD: MEDIAFIRE

01 Amina Alaoui & Jon Balke – Itimad X L-Wiz – Smogged
02 Ora Sittner & Youval Micenmacher – Dror Iqra X Scuba – Sleepa
03 23 Skidoo – G-2 Contemplation X Marc Ashken – Roots Dyed Dark (Skream Remix)
04 Jygach Ooz Komuz – Kambarkan Folk Ensemble X Dj Distance – Nomad
05 Sarah Webster – A Lesson Twice Learned / Drum Talk X Pinch & Loefah – Broken
06 JilJilala – Unknown X JuJu – Iroko
07 Fawzy Al-Aiedy – Milad X Toasty – Like Sun
08 Hossam Ramzy & Phil Thornton – Immortal Egypt X dj quest & eskimo – Speakers Corner (Instrumental Death Edit)
09 Unknown – Arab Flute X Zen Militia – Pull of Guilt (Scuba Remix)
10 Unknown – Morocco Belly Dance X Substep Infrabass Monotonium
11 Guem – Royal Dance X Shed – Panamax Remix
12 Unknown – African Tribal Drums X Unkown – UK Grime
13 Reda Darwish – Raqset El Banat X Headhunter – Drop The Waste
14 Remko Scha – Machine Guitars Slam X Skream – Backwards
15 Andy Moor – Uganda Fly X Loefah – Fire Elements
16 Sir Richard Bishop – Blood Stained Sands X Tunnidge – Face Melt
17 Sijano Vodjani – Dedication X King Midas Sound – Earth a kill ya

not read all the replies (im feeling lazy) but its all due to timbo obv. and then tunes like qawaali by pinch. he did it right, but most of the 'ethno flavouring' a lot of dubstep producers used was really quite awful and poorly implemented imo. some of it might be down to political sympathies though i think most of it is purely musical - middle eastern sounds being something of an untapped resource by and large and the region acquiring a certain rebellious (and for some discomfort) cache, which ok, might make it a bit political after all, if of the purely surface kind. its also part of dubsteps view of itself as being open to anything and a certain kind of liberalism espoused by the producers - they want to be seen as being 'open minded' but all too often didnt seem too sure how to make it work properly so it just felt stuck on often ot like a lot of previous 'world fusion' beats. i know its not that far from grime using east asian sounds, though i preferred that as they seemed to incorporate it a bit less gingerly and i just have a grime bias tbh.

This album that was released on LIES has ME themes/overtones (obviously the name, but also in some of the sounds used): http://hardwax.com/66109/jahiliyya-fields/unicursal-hexagram/

Very good record, I think.

Steering clear of artists who misappropriate arabic samples, what about Mutamassik?


And of course DJ/Rupture released some interesting stuff;


But this kind of thing does't really make it on to Youtube. Both have released tracks verging on breakcore but I can't find them. I should really learn how to upload things myself.

there was some talk about a page back of just slapping some samples on a tune and calling it jihad on the us and how that might be problematic... if you think that would be problematic, check this out (FYI the act concerned are white and from Sweden):

"Our sound is best described as modern club music heavily infused with traditional Middle Eastern music. We're influenced by everything from house, tropical, moombahton and UK Bass, to juke, rnb & hip hop to classic Arabic folk music. Doing everything from really fast pase to super sloooow, and top it of with our singer/Mc ****'s cocky vocals. The result we call Jihad House or Middle Eastern Bass! We are doing both live-gigs and dj-sets with our eclectic sound.

Here is the links for our facebook and soundcloud:

facebook.com/**********
soundcloud.com/***********

Since the day we started we've been putting a lot of our energy into making a good performance. It's not just about the music we're making, it's also about how we present it, create a whole world around it. and we're good at it. It's always mayhem when we go live, we put on a show! Dressed in burqas, horns blowing off, arabic prayers in the background and basslines that sends shivers up your spine, and no limits to headbanging."