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Thread: mainstreaming of VICE // VICE mainstream

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    e racist" stuff do you mean? i am very sensitive to overt, covert, structural, institutional, wholly normalized, and every other kind of racism in the media, and the times i have found Vice articles to be racist is pretty damn close to 0.
    VICE Magazine got too much for me with this one in particular:
    http://www.vice.com/read/hand-v13n10

    TLDR: It's a guide to the gang signs of the Herschelwood Crips, complete with photos and illustrations.

    I am amazed that Zhao in particular doesn't have a golden race card in his deck set aside especially for these ridiculous bobo motherfuckers.

  2. #17
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    They had a rep as sleazebags when they were starting out in Montreal. Nothing about their free rag or anything they've done since has ever made me think otherwise. They capitalized on casual misogyny and racism, and apparently they've built an empire catering to privileged bro-ness. They might do the odd half decent news-like report but that stuff is still their bread and butter.

    Top story today at Vice.com:

    Last edited by nomos; 19-04-2013 at 09:40 PM.

  3. #18
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    ^^ YES. You know who else are "sleazebags" that "capitalized on casual misogyny and racism"? MIT Press and Semiotext(e).



    http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/i-love-dick

    fuck these women haters and their women hating, money making schemes!

    Last edited by zhao; 20-04-2013 at 04:00 AM.

  4. #19
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    and you know what is wrong with the gang signs piece? absolutely nothing.

    if you people think that and the "cum guzzlers" article are "racist" and "misogynist" then i'm sorry, you don't know much about racism and misogyny.

    There is 10 times as much racism and misogyny in any random 30 minutes of public American TV than in every issue of Vice put together.

  5. #20
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    y'all need to read this again, because it's spot on:

    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    VICE is like an insult comic who uses tons of racial/gay/etc slurs in an act but is firmly anti-racist/sexist/etc, and is at least in some way using those words to depower them Lenny Bruce style, tho I don't know that distinction is always clear to readers, or even writers. whereas most mainstream things are exactly the opposite where that structural shit is all firmly in place but at the same time there's a fake P.C. code firmly in place, i.e. where oppression is reduced to making a public apology to NAACP or GLAAD.
    but this next bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    in one sense Vice is in the fine Werner Herzog (Errol Morris too) tradition of making documentaries about weird shit. but that dude is always thinking about what he's doing, what he's saying. there's one great quote (in the doc about him eating his shoe I think - Les Blank RIP btw) where he says he's "working on creating a new grammar of images". now, we can't all be as deep or genuinely idiosyncratic as Werner Herzog. but in Vice there is absolutely nothing going beneath the surface. I mean, the guy cares enough to go to Mali or Pakistan or wherever and empathize with the people there but somehow doesn't care enough to do a competent job of showing their stories. this bothers me more than it should b/c it seems like such a missed opportunity.
    comparing Vice to Herzog is surely giving them too much credit!!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    on the one hand, I agree with you. VICE is like an insult comic who uses tons of racial/gay/etc slurs in an act but is firmly anti-racist/sexist/etc, and is at least in some way using those words to depower them Lenny Bruce style, tho I don't know that distinction is always clear to readers, or even writers. whereas most mainstream things are exactly the opposite where that structural shit is all firmly in place but at the same time there's a fake P.C. code firmly in place, i.e. where oppression is reduced to making a public apology to NAACP or GLAAD.
    This is really interesting. Not specific about VICE, but I think the vast majority of those insult comics are arseholes, who just use a thin veneer of 'irony' to disguise the fact they just want to be free to use those slurs, but simultaneously pretend that they are somehow 'subverting' them. Can't count (well I can, but I mean that there have been a lot of occasions) the occasions where I've noticed this recently, to the point where I've virtually given up on comedy.

    No doubt there are some clever people who are genuinely attempting subversion, but there are an awful lot of bigots hanging on to their coat-tails and pretending to be 'edgy'.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    and you know what is wrong with the gang signs piece? absolutely nothing.

    if you people think that and the "cum guzzlers" article are "racist" and "misogynist" then i'm sorry, you don't know much about racism and misogyny.
    you have to expand upon this with an argument as to why you think this, c'mon. I agree with you that a lot of mainstream TV might be even more dubious, but that is no argument in itself.

    I'm also unclear as to why, as a man, you've positioned yourself as a spokesperson on misogyny... I didn't think the 'cum guzzling' article in question was that bad either to be honest, but telling other people what they do or don't know is a bad look, especially on a forum which lots of (ok some...ok, a few!) people read.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 20-04-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  8. #23
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    In terms of coverage of race and music, I thought this DJ Rupture quote was interesting:

    "Many music critics still believe in magical black people: 'Oh, they're making crazy, avant-garde music in Chicago, and it's called juke'," he says. "But at the same time, the privilege of being a black man with a middle-class background at the start of the 21st century is that I can do whatever I want: it doesn't have to feel representative. I was nerdier than people wanted DJ /rupture to be." They wanted a thug? "Yeah, which is the holy grail: 'It's avant-garde but it's scary at the same time!'"

  9. #24
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    come on. Accusing VICE, of all magazines and TV shows out there, of sexism and misogyny is worse than something the Internet Wimmin Mobs would do.

    Anyone who actually thinks VICE is sexist or racist is entirely out of touch with reality, does not understand the function of sarcasm or irony, and has zero sense of humor. that's all i have to say.
    Last edited by zhao; 20-04-2013 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #25
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    That's your view, fine. But to pretend that VICE is so far from being dubious, and that anyone who think so is 'out of touch with reality', is disingenuous. You clearly must be able to see why some people would have problems with some of the articles cited - by all means present an argument against them/in defence of VICE, but don't use 'out of touch with reality' putdowns without explanation. There's an argument to be had here.

    And the 'no sense of humour', 'they were being ironic' argument is one that doesn't wash, because, and I think you'll prob agree on this, it is the exact same one that is routinely used in the service of so much bigotry.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 20-04-2013 at 11:37 AM.

  11. #26
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    zhao are you joking linking to that bullshit NS piece (which was written b/c their editor and other prominent white feminists dismissed the importance of intersectionality in feminism)? and imho the people who you dismiss as the "Internet Wimmin Mob" have a much clearer understanding of and right to define what is or isn't sexist or misogynistic than two men like you or I.
    Last edited by e/y; 20-04-2013 at 11:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by juanroberto View Post
    how many threads have you had shut down?

  12. #27
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    "if you people think that and the "cum guzzlers" article are "racist" and "misogynist" then i'm sorry, you don't know much about racism and misogyny."
    I'm not sure if Nommos was saying that the cum-guzzling article was sexist, just that it was horrible frat-boy shit.

  13. #28
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    pretty sure he was giving it as an example of misogyny

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by e/y View Post
    zhao are you joking linking to that bullshit NS piece (which was written b/c their editor and other prominent white feminists dismissed the importance of intersectionality in feminism)? and imho the people who you dismiss as the "Internet Wimmin Mob" have a much clearer understanding of and right to define what is or isn't sexist or misogynistic than two men like you or I.
    So if gender trumps all in this, how come you're dismissing the NS piece, which is also written by a feminist woman?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    pretty sure he was giving it as an example of misogyny
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by IdleRich
    just that it was horrible frat-boy shit.
    Yes.

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