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Thread: mainstreaming of VICE // VICE mainstream

  1. #31

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    online wimmin mob is twitter intersectionality-core now, keep up

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
    So if gender trumps all in this...
    that's not really what I said, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by juanroberto View Post
    how many threads have you had shut down?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by e/y View Post
    that's not really what I said, is it?
    You dismissed one feminist writer's piece as "bullshit" while in the same sentence suggesting Zhao has no business criticising other feminists because he, like you, is a man. Do explain how that works.

  4. #34

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    Think the consensus on the NS was bullshit in fairness. In a long line of bullshit pieces on the matter. And the assumption readers are already aware of the who while not naming name might as well be an essay-length subtweet. Not least as the article is about cliqueishness, perceived or otherwise. There are no membership cards in the feminist club as far as I am aware. Like if a man has a point of disagreement it's just a disagreement but a feminist is somehow excluding her.

    A few years ago people were writing these pieces asking where all the young feminists were. Now they are talking back on social media and the same people are shouting stop silencing me, when all most people are asking is to take other considerations into account. Part of it even feels like what Slothrop was saying about vinyl DJs and cultural capital manouevres, only with the double of columnists having to get used to two way traffic and much of highlighting they may not be always as right as they thought. Especially if they considered themselves very much on the right side up until now.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionfive View Post

    A few years ago people were writing these pieces asking where all the young feminists were. Now they are talking back on social media and the same people are shouting stop silencing me, when all most people are asking is to take other considerations into account.
    From what I've seen these "other considerations" mean habitually qualifying every sentence you write with so many sub-clauses and let's-not-forgets while crosschecking with this month's dictionary of the acceptable terms (exhibit A: the blogger who called Caitlin Moran "transphobic" for saying that if you put your hands in your pants and can feel a vagina you're a woman) as to reduce professional journalism to the same standard of unreadable bollocks as most of the academia that inspires these people. Plus, tbh, many of them seem a bit fucking mad.

  6. #36

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    That's a bit of caricature though. I dunno, there is really nothing impenetrably academic about it. When people blindly defend columnists or deride concepts they seem to forget every other day spent explaining why things are sexist and the reaction they themselves get.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionfive View Post
    That's a bit of caricature though. I dunno, there is really nothing impenetrably academic about it. When people blindly defend columnists or deride concepts they seem to forget every other day spent explaining why things are sexist and the reaction they themselves get.
    Strikes me there's a lot more blindness (and none of that ablist talk here, please ) on the part of those attacking them. For instance, the spat over Suzanne Moore began because she used the term transexual rather than transgender and was called out for transphobia. I'll admit she didn't cover herself in glory with some of her responses, but if I had to put up with that level of self-righteous self-indulgent sniping I'd have given a lot worse.

  8. #38

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    Was more to it then that with Moore but I agree all sides could approach each other better.
    What's happened though is people are conflating the behaviour of critics with validity of the concept. A mistake imo.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionfive View Post
    What's happened though is people are conflating the behaviour of critics with validity of the concept. A mistake imo.
    Understandable, though. The absolute last thing the left in general needs is yet more reasons to play language police, IMO.

  10. #40

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    a lot of bruised egos etc

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
    Understandable, though. The absolute last thing the left in general needs is yet more reasons to play language police, IMO.
    Don't think anyone is playing language police though, another caricature of the criticism. Loads of people are writing and speaking with no "mob" ire.


    Best thing for the left or anyone else is to tackle these issues.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    awful lot of bigots
    so it's overkill to approach it as a de facto post-everything pop deconstruction thing, OK. I didn't really mean it an organized, conscious setup anyway, just that I think most of the offensive stuff is self-aware and not mindless. when you reach a mass audience with a style like that inevitably a % of them won't get it and at a certain point it will cross over and become the thing it's satirizing but that's hardly a problem unique to Vice. that very thing basically drove Dave Chappelle crazy, I mean.

    anyway tho, I really shoulda been more clear in OP tho cos I'm def not interested in just discussing VICE. haven't read the mag in years, rarely if ever look at website, it just don't interest me. plus, who the fuck wants to discuss Vice? it is what it is and it has been for what, nearing 20 years now right? whatever you think of it you think of it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sectionfive View Post

    Best thing for the left or anyone else is to tackle these issues.
    Great, cos nothing works like another bout of infighting and Judean People's Frontism (and yes, there's another caricature for you).

  14. #44

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    Better then letting it fester imo. Surely even more important to address this stuff on your own side then the other.

  15. #45
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    this news thing is its own thing. I stumbled on it from YT recs. probably plenty of people watching their docs never even heard of the magazine prior. and it's def NOT just "the odd half-decent news report". for one Vice has been doing this for many years, it's not a new cash grab or something. and there are definitely many documentarists, indy journalists out there doing it better and/or weirder, deeper, whatever but who is covering the same breadth in the same format with the same resources? that last is most important, since Vice has the $ to send people to all these places but also the ability that CNN etc don't to market it. I'm not passing a value judgment on that as good or bad, it's just an interesting development. it says as much anyway about mainstream news that HBO is now willing to give them a show to do their frat hipster gonzo thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhao View Post
    comparing Vice to Herzog is surely giving them too much credit
    obviously not comparing them in any imaginable terms of quality, just using Herzog as the par exellence example of being able to contextualize and humanize even the most seemingly disparate, alien topics while still maintaining their own unique weirdness. the ideal to strive for.

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