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Thread: Trayvon Martin

  1. #16
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    What's particularly fucked-up is the reaction from the gun lobby in cases like this. There's no admission that it's an egregious exception to (what they would see as) the generally fair and morally defensible practice of public gun ownership, or even any regret over a tragic accident - instead, you get the impression that a lot of people simply see the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager as fundamentally a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by HuffPo
    An Ohio political action committee is raising money to buy George Zimmerman a new gun, the group announced on its website Saturday.

    The Buckeye Firearms Foundation wants to provide the man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin "with the funds he needs to replace his firearm, holster, and other gear."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3634975.html
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 30-07-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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  2. #17

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    I'd be interested to know

    a) how does a gated community have so many robberies.
    b) curtain twitcher extraordinaire should have probably known his victim by sight as he was a resident.
    c) have any of the other black people in the estate upped sticks since the shooting.
    Last edited by owengriffiths; 10-08-2013 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #18
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    Hmm, was just wondering if any USsensians (or close followers of American news) have seen much coverage of the Mark Duggan case over there? Not that it's a particularly close parallel to the Martin case but it surely touches many of the same sorts of nerves.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Hmm, was just wondering if any USsensians (or close followers of American news) have seen much coverage of the Mark Duggan case over there? Not that it's a particularly close parallel to the Martin case but it surely touches many of the same sorts of nerves.
    no coverage here. the only reason i recognize the name is from occasionally reading the guardian online, so some people here might be aware that way but no coverage by US media that i've seen.

  5. #20
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    I guess in America 'black guy shot by cops' is probably about as newsworthy as 'dog fouls pavement'...
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  6. #21
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    While shooting deaths are low, total number of deaths in the UK following contact with the police since 1990 is 1476 (of which 144 non-white people), which I find staggering. The kind of figure the govt would trot out to show how 'uncivilised' other countries are - the police are totally out of control and virtually beyond prosecution.

  7. #22
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    Yeah, I saw those figures in a k-punk blog 'you' put up on FB the other day. Terrifying. And yes, I totally agree that it gives the lie to the idea that there are countries where cops are 'bad' and then lovely civilized Britain where cops are 'good'. Sure, some places are a lot worse than the UK but being a bit better than somewhere that's absolutely terrible is not really a ringing endorsement.

    Interesting that "only" a tenth of those killed have been non-white, when you consider the make-up of the city. Not that that makes it any less bad, obviously.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Interesting that "only" a tenth of those killed have been non-white, when you consider the make-up of the city. Not that that makes it any less bad, obviously.
    Those are UK figures, according to Baboon - not just London. Although 10% is roughly in line with the non-white population as a whole, I'd have thought.

    What does 'contact with the police' mean, though? Someone hanging himself in his cell? Old friend of mine was taken to the cells one night cos the police saw him loitering on a footbridge over a bypass. They thought he was a suicide risk. He insisted he'd done nothing wrong and demanded to be released. He went straight back to that bridge and jumped to his death. Would that count as 'contact with the police'?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
    Those are UK figures, according to Baboon - not just London. Although 10% is roughly in line with the non-white population as a whole, I'd have thought.
    Oh I missed that bit, I thought it was just for the Met.

    Quote Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
    What does 'contact with the police' mean, though? Someone hanging himself in his cell? Old friend of mine was taken to the cells one night cos the police saw him loitering on a footbridge over a bypass. They thought he was a suicide risk. He insisted he'd done nothing wrong and demanded to be released. He went straight back to that bridge and jumped to his death. Would that count as 'contact with the police'?
    Yeah, I guess it's kind of ambiguous. But it's well known that a lot of deaths happen in custody, where suicidal people are supposed to be protected from the risk of self-harm. So even a death that's 100% self-caused points to a failure of care if it happens on police property.

    Very sorry to hear about your friend, that's awful.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Very sorry to hear about your friend, that's awful.
    It was decades ago, so I'm long over it - but thanks.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
    Those are UK figures, according to Baboon - not just London. Although 10% is roughly in line with the non-white population as a whole, I'd have thought.

    What does 'contact with the police' mean, though? Someone hanging himself in his cell? Old friend of mine was taken to the cells one night cos the police saw him loitering on a footbridge over a bypass. They thought he was a suicide risk. He insisted he'd done nothing wrong and demanded to be released. He went straight back to that bridge and jumped to his death. Would that count as 'contact with the police'?
    Only just seen this - sorry about your friend, that's absolutely terrible.

    In answer to the question, I don't know - I tried to find how Inquest compile their stats, but couldn't locate the relevant part. I think 900-odd deaths happen in custody, the rest outside in various circumstances.

    I went to the Mark Duggan vigil in Tottenham on Saturday, and there were speeches by various family members of other men and women (mainly those men and women were black, but not exclusively) killed by the police - Sean Rigg, Leon Biggs, Azelle Rodney. Hearing the stories of how they died was just numbingly horrific. And how as a father/mother/sister/brother/friend do you ever get over that, with no justice ever materialising?

  12. #27
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    In related news...


  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    While shooting deaths are low, total number of deaths in the UK following contact with the police since 1990 is 1476 (of which 144 non-white people), which I find staggering. The kind of figure the govt would trot out to show how 'uncivilised' other countries are - the police are totally out of control and virtually beyond prosecution.
    i dont want to play that figure down but id be interested to know where it compares to other countries.

  14. #29
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    It's a fair question. While the figure is phenomenally high, I don't really know how it compares to others. No doubt some way below the US, which is not saying much of course. Looked for figures for France and Germany, not found anything yet, and probably won't if I persist in searching in English...

  15. #30
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    Found an article on the subject that is based on a Dutch study. It covers the period between 1995-2005

    Holland: 1/5.000.000 (an average of 1 death on every five million inhabitants)
    France: 1/6.000.000
    Denmark: 1/7.000.000
    Portugal: 1/8.000.000
    Germany: 1/14.000.000
    England: 1/27.000.000

    British number was actually the lowest, highest were those of Canada and the U.S. (article didn't give a number).

    http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/...ogels~a372336/

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