Syria

firefinga

Well-known member
To achieve what, I wonder?

Anyway I really wouldn't set any store by anything Trump says is "long-term". He's like a ten-year-old with ADHD who's stopped taking his Ritalin.

To achieve the notion that "The West" still counts, in military terms. No actual goal has been achieved by the "Western" joint strike of late which was never intended. It was fraudulent anyways, from a tactical point of view - I mean: Assad had plenty of time to remove stuff - if there ever was some there in the first place. Also, it had the side effect of showing Putin being a bit of a loudmouth regarding his claims of shooting down the missiles.
 

droid

Well-known member
I've read Fisk over many years and Ive seen him denounce the Assads on countless occasions, going back to the 80's. He's also extremely careful with his language there and points out the conflicts of interest in testimony.

But yes, I guess it is conspiratorial to suggest that several states with vested interests who currently support other regimes that routinely use chemical weapons on civilians might use a case like this as a pretext to advance their own aims, after all, that's never happened before.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I have - or had - a lot of respect for Fisk as well. I remember hearing him on the BBC some years ago, discussing the relentless horrors he'd seen in the ME, reduced to tears. Maybe all this, and his advancing years, means he's less critical of Assad et al? Idk. Most of the criticism I've read from Syria activists is that he's embedded with regime forces and presents their line but i've never investigated this thoroughly myself. Like I said, I've reada fair amount by him myself and I was impressed a few years back but I've not read him much in recent years. I'd be interested to read some pieces where he criticises Assad, if you have some links, Droid.
 
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droid

Well-known member
I have - or had - a lot of respect for Fisk as well. I remember hearing him on the BBC some years ago, discussing the relentless horrors he'd seen in the ME, reduced to tears. Maybe all this, and his advancing years, means he's less critical of Assad et al? Idk. Most of the criticism I've read from Syria activists is that he's embedded with regime forces and presents their line but i've never investigated this thoroughly myself. Like I said, I've reada fair amount by him myself and I was impressed a few years back but I've not read him much in recent years. I'd be interested to read some pieces where he criticises Assad, if you have some links, Droid.

Yeah, and all the other caveats of reporting in a warzone apply as well of course.

Id have to dig, but there was a big piece about the Hama massacre in 1982 in Pity the Nation I think? and IIRC any of his articles that have significant discussion on Hezbollah also include not particularly favourable descriptions of the Syrian government.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I've read Fisk over many years and Ive seen him denounce the Assads on countless occasions, going back to the 80's. He's also extremely careful with his language there and points out the conflicts of interest in testimony.

But yes, I guess it is conspiratorial to suggest that several states with vested interests who currently support other regimes that routinely use chemical weapons on civilians might use a case like this as a pretext to advance their own aims, after all, that's never happened before.

You'll forgive me for adopting a default position of skepticism towards a Western journalist who's been repeatedly criticised for taking the regime line on the conflict and whose articles happen to align quite nicely with the state media of the world's uncontested masters of strategic disinformation.

Or maybe you won't, I don't really care.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Just reading now that Fisk has visited the site before the OPCW - WTF?

And his version of events coincides with the alleged perpetrator - who have actually been blocking the OPCW from attending. Jesus. I find this genuinely shocking. WTF is he doing, reporting from there, when when the international body supposed to determine the truth here are denied access? That's fucking scandalous.

Robert Fisk is guilty of enabling war crimes. It is an absolute disgrace he has agreed to this visit before the OPCW, and with the people inviting him having both vetoed the UN mechanism to investigate the identity of the perpetrator, and are currently blocking access to the site for the OPCW.

This is like attending a crime scene:

i) where access to the site is controlled by the chief suspect in the crime.

ii) where that suspect is blocking the police from accessing the site to collect evidence.

iii) And then dutifully insinuating the chief suspect's version of events

Fisk should be sacked by the Independent. He is no different from those who shilled for Stalin.

Russia and Assad are intent on bringing the entire mechanism of international law and cooperation into even greater disrepute and dysfunction.

They are enemies of all that is worth preserving about our current system, which is little but the only thing between us and complete polarization.

Russia and Fisk weaponise ignorance. They weaponise the gap between the complexity / nuance of a situation and the public understanding of it. They know this Fisk article will get shared by the fake news ecosystem, and spread around the world in hours. They know that just the headline implying a 'false flag', in a paper as mainstream as The Independent, will do much of the work (as it did with Newsweek) They also know the rebuttals will require paying attention and parsing the complexity and that the most likely result will be: 'it all seems so complicated and exhausting, don't know which media to trust these days'.
 
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droid

Well-known member
Thats nothing. Did you hear that the US, UK and France actually launched attacks before the inspectors went in?
 

sufi

lala
fwd by a russian troll on twitter
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28212724
Syrian conflict: Key sarin ingredients sold by UK firms
By Nick Hopkins Investigations correspondent, BBC Newsnight

9 July 2014

Sarin building blocks

Syria's declarations to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) name Britain as the sole supplier of dimethyl phosphate (DMP), trimethyl phosphate (TMP) and hexamine - three chemicals that Syria used in the production of sarin.

The phosphate chemicals are regarded as the building blocks of sarin and Newsnight understands British companies sold hundreds of metric tonnes of them to Damascus.

Syria's declarations have since been verified by a Whitehall audit of chemical sales by British companies.
:(
 

sufi

lala
I remember that being brought up around the time Cameron was looking to launch airstrikes. I imagine those chemicals have other uses, but it wasn't a good look to be condemning a country for using weapons you sold them the materials
It's par for the course, not worthy of consideration or even a mention in these days.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
The massacres in Syria continue. Out of curiosity has anyone seen the below reported in any international media? Syrian deaths don't make the news anymore it seems. The host nation of the world cup continues to murder civilians and rescue workers but no one's that bothered. Imagine if these people were European.

Names of 45 civilians killed by the Russian air force last night in Zardana town in Idlib province. About 80 civilians were also injured. It's likely the death toll will rise. The Russian jets returned when the White Helmets first responders arrived to rescue the injured and did a double-tap strike targeting the humanitarian rescue workers, again, and killed one Ali Baradee.

Those who died are:

1. Hussein Mohammed Deeb Hamroush
2. Mohammed Mahmoud Hamroush
3. Ahmed Hussein Hamroush child
4. Mohsen Ahmed Hamroush
5. Omar Gomaa Hamroush
6. Rahab Hamroush
7. Abdullah Aziz Yasef
8. Sana Aziz Yasef
9. Ahmed Ahmed Yassouf
10. Abdel Hayy Fayez Yassouf
11. Ibrahim Mohamed Yassouf
12. Abdel Wahab Louki (Abutah)
13. Wife Abdul Wahab Louki
14. His daughter
15. His son Taha Louki child
16. Nadima Louki
17. Murad Louki
18. Mohammed Louki
19. Amani Susie
20. A little girl Amani Susi's daughter
21. Khaled Soufan
22. Mohammed Khaled Soufan
23. The child of Ibn 'Abd Allah Ahmad is Yusuf
24. Abdel-Qader Amoun
25. Mustafa Sobh
26. Mohammed Saleh Amin
27. Amina, wife of Sheikh Mohammed Hamroush
29. Mohammed Taha Loki
30. Hassan Ahmad Al-Mahmoud
31. Ahmed Khaled Othman
32. Emad Al-Hamoud, displaced, seller of sweets.
33. Fawza Mohammed
34. Abu Hassan al-Hadhir
35. His wife
36. His daughter
37.'Abd Ibn Amunah bint Khalid Hamroush
38. An unidentified child
39. Ahmed Hassan Yasuf
40. His wife Sabriya Yasuf
41. His son Abdullah Ahmed Yasuf
42. The son of Abdullah, a child
43. Dr. Eid Hamroush
44. Ahmed Ibrahim Amoun
45. Ali Baradee, White Helmet rescue volunteer.

And more than 80 injured.

One reported missing is
-Majd Ahmed Hamroush
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
Some "good" news in that Germany have issued a warrant for one of Assad's torturers, based on victim testimony. Sounds like a similar case to that brought in Spain (as shown in the documentary Syria's Disappeared) - though IIRC that was a civil case brought by the families of one of the victims - and this is driven by Federal prosecutors.

More on Assad and torture: http://littleatoms.com/assads-torture-chiefs
 
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