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Thread: Nick Land and Neocameralism

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    I think what it is, is this: considering the vast amounts of emotional energy that a lot of people all over the world pour into progressive and radical causes, how come, almost wherever you look, mainstream politics is taking a turn for the reactionary and authoritarian?
    Because reactionary points of view are backed by enormous amounts of corporate money and media coverage. That one is simple. People aren't stupid, but they are enormously susceptible to being convinced to believe things that are antithetical to their own interests.

    Corbyn is 20 points behind, but his policies are enormously popular, admit even right wing media outlets. You can't attribute that gap solely to Corbyn's ineptitude, which is real but in no way more important than the ineptitude of the Tory changeover last summer, for example, or the all-round ridiculousness of Theresa May's blatant lying and U-turns.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 18-04-2017 at 09:06 PM.

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    My assumption is that there are deep seated historical, emotional, psychological and possibly even genetic factors behind the appeal of tribalism, authoritarianism, sadism etc and that the left has to go against the grain to some extent. I think it's maybe a harder sell.
    I think this is true, but that the critical factor is how the way society is now set up encourages these latent tendencies to manifest. People are trained to feel comfortable with (and largely accept) forms of authoritarianism, while growing up, at school and then at (usually pretty precarious) work.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 18-04-2017 at 09:11 PM.

  4. #183
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    Bit chicken and egg that possibly

  5. #184
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    which part

  6. #185
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    What do you think?... But let's not get sidetracked. The important thing is to tell Oliver (either one) he's wrong, and to make insinuating remarks about his real political allegiances

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  8. #186
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    The left should be about solidarity. The neoliberal bullshit way of things which is dominating the western world for 30+ years is about unhinged egoism. That egoism has been working fine for a lot of people and that's why it has been prolonged for so long. We - may - witness an end to this these days, what will follow after that might even be shittier though.

  9. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    What do you think?... But let's not get sidetracked. The important thing is to tell Oliver (either one) he's wrong, and to make insinuating remarks about his real political allegiances
    not sure, that's why I asked

  10. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    So while you could argue that sjw twitter begets frog twitter I don't think you can blame it for Le Pen, for example
    I agree with that. But is "SJW Twitter" (figuratively speaking) preventing discussion of Le Pen, and of the whole phenomenon of right wing populism?

  11. #189
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    There has been a reluctance to talk about a range of topics, immigration primarily, that have become enormously important politically. There are, imo, good reasons for that reluctance, but perhaps it backfired. If that's an argument you want to make I'll listen to you make it.

  12. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    I agree with that. But is "SJW Twitter" (figuratively speaking) preventing discussion of Le Pen, and of the whole phenomenon of right wing populism?
    Some days it feels like that's the only thing that's being discussed.

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  14. #191
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    What would you like to talk about vimothy, or, to avoid putting you on the spot, what do you think other people, have been wanting to talk about but haven't dared to do so for fear of sjw twitter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    Some days it feels like that's the only thing that's being discussed.
    This is also true but the two sides aren't talking to each other. There's no debate. This is partly because both labour and the tories are pro immigration but have decided, bizarrely, to pretend not to be. It's deeply, poisonously cynical

  16. #193

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    Isn't the issue really that everyone has retreated into their own self-reinforcing bubbles where dissenting view-points are squashed and so the bubbles are taken for objective reality? Every so often, a more objective measure of the state of things is taken (like an election) and everyone is shocked at how out of touch they've become. Then they quickly retreat back into their bubbles and we go round again.

  17. #194
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    That's one issue certainly. The laws changed in the US didn't they? To allow for openly partisan news networks?

  18. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    as in, what are this lads actual motives here?
    I can't help but feel there's a certain insinuation here. But really, if I were a closet Tory, I'd be singing Corbyn's praises from the rooftops, wouldn't I? If I were in any way glad about Trump, I'd have only good things to say about those pure-hearted student radicals who abstained rather dirty their hands voting for Clinton after their man Sanders lost the Democratic nomination. And so on.

    Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick here. What do you mean exactly?
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

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