sadmanbarty
Well-known member
This is all based on arbitrary anecdotal evidence and conjecture.
Results from proper scientific methodology suggests your assertions are false.
KAN YAY OR KAN NAY? (The Kanye West Thread)
- Thread starter Corpsey
- Start date
This is all based on arbitrary anecdotal evidence and conjecture.
Results from proper scientific methodology suggests your assertions are false.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
Is it possible to have a discussion about this without having to meticulously back up every single point or opinion with 'proper scientific methodology' and evidence. I mean I could easily find you tons of studies, articles and reports attesting to the damaging effects of children watching porn.
You could try opening your eyes to what's going on around us all and using your own brain for a bit
You could try opening your eyes to what's going on around us all and using your own brain for a bit
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
ffs its like arguing with mr spock
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
lets get it straight, your conclusion based on 'proper scientific methodology' is...porn is good because sexualisation improves gender equality and human rights and stops men sexually abusing women...but it only works if we show it to young people.
nice one mate
nice one mate
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
You've repeatedly misrepresented what I've said, could you please stop.
I'm not telling anyone to show children porn. That is punishable with jail time as it should be.
We're approaching this from such different paradigms that there's no point in keeping this discussion going.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
if i've misrepresented what you've said then i apologise. you could try and help me to understand your position a bit better maybe if you didn't just dump a couple of suspicious looking scientific studies on us, which you appear to swallow without question. show me that you've actually thought about it and weighed up your 'evidence' with ideas of your own, which are not necessarily quantifiable.
if you believe that those who don't watch porn until later life are more likely to be abusive, are you implying that people should start watching it when they're younger (16? 18? 21?).
are you implying that porn has something good to teach us, something that stops us turning into abusers? what type of porn?
or are you implying that porn works as a sort of safe release for male sexual aggression, so they don't go out and abuse women 'in real life' themselves?
see, if you don't explain yourself i'm gonna jump to all sorts of conclusions.
if you believe that those who don't watch porn until later life are more likely to be abusive, are you implying that people should start watching it when they're younger (16? 18? 21?).
are you implying that porn has something good to teach us, something that stops us turning into abusers? what type of porn?
or are you implying that porn works as a sort of safe release for male sexual aggression, so they don't go out and abuse women 'in real life' themselves?
see, if you don't explain yourself i'm gonna jump to all sorts of conclusions.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Sorry, there's no need for you to apologise, I wasn't explaining myself clearly.
One of the links I posted is a review of numerous studies on the subject. Scientific methodology looks for repeated outcomes which is why I think a review of the literature has more validity than individual studies. If there are flaws with any methodology or conflicting evidence becomes available I will change my mind.
The problem with using my own ideas (or other people using their own ideas), particularly if they're not quantifiable, is that I'm more fallible than proper evidence. People are susceptible to confirmation bias, their lives provide them with very small 'sample sizes', particular variables will be disproportionately represented by a person's lifestyle, etc. So subjective conjecture doesn't have much scientific validity.
I don't know why exposure to porn later in life is correlated with increased sex crime. Maybe growing up with sexuality being taboo increases both how late in life someone encounters porn and their likelihood of committing sex crimes. In which case there is no causality between the two.
I'm not necessarily saying that porn reduces sex crime, though some studies do suggest that. I'm saying that there isn't a correlation between increased porn consumption in a society and increased sexual violence. I think there are similar studies to suggest that violence in films and videogames doesn't result in more real world violence.
One of the links I posted is a review of numerous studies on the subject. Scientific methodology looks for repeated outcomes which is why I think a review of the literature has more validity than individual studies. If there are flaws with any methodology or conflicting evidence becomes available I will change my mind.
The problem with using my own ideas (or other people using their own ideas), particularly if they're not quantifiable, is that I'm more fallible than proper evidence. People are susceptible to confirmation bias, their lives provide them with very small 'sample sizes', particular variables will be disproportionately represented by a person's lifestyle, etc. So subjective conjecture doesn't have much scientific validity.
I don't know why exposure to porn later in life is correlated with increased sex crime. Maybe growing up with sexuality being taboo increases both how late in life someone encounters porn and their likelihood of committing sex crimes. In which case there is no causality between the two.
I'm not necessarily saying that porn reduces sex crime, though some studies do suggest that. I'm saying that there isn't a correlation between increased porn consumption in a society and increased sexual violence. I think there are similar studies to suggest that violence in films and videogames doesn't result in more real world violence.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
so porn now equals sexuality?
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
I can't imagine getting in this discussion at work, though what does it say about me I'm doing this on my free time.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
barty have a read of this if you can be arsed and have got the time and inclination, its good on the effects of porn on young people
http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/03/13/growing-up-pornland-australian-girls/
http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/03/13/growing-up-pornland-australian-girls/
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Nope. I was wondering if early attitudes towards sexuality may inform at what age someone first encounters porn and also there likelihood to to perpetrate sexual crime.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
It's a contradictory age, insofar as acceptance of pornography and of women's rights are both on the rise. Can't link it through work PC but according to a study cited in a Wiki entry for rate of rapes in the U.S., levels of rape have been more or less steadily declining between 1973-2003.
Which isn't to say porn is CAUSING this decline, of course. And arguably could be held responsible for the rate not declining MORE.
I reckon in the case of some sexual offenders, pornography will have helped them cross the threshold from fantasy to action, but whether or not pornography is responsible for the fantasy developing in the first place is open to debate. It's a similar question with movie violence, isn't it?
Viewed through this lens, porn is kind of fascinating as a reflector of societal attitudes towards sex and gender. I always find the variety of culture-specific fetishes fascinating. The Japanese schoolgirl thing, e.g., or the supposed British predilection for spanking. I've always wanted to read a great book about this, so if you know of any, let me know.
Which isn't to say porn is CAUSING this decline, of course. And arguably could be held responsible for the rate not declining MORE.
I reckon in the case of some sexual offenders, pornography will have helped them cross the threshold from fantasy to action, but whether or not pornography is responsible for the fantasy developing in the first place is open to debate. It's a similar question with movie violence, isn't it?
Viewed through this lens, porn is kind of fascinating as a reflector of societal attitudes towards sex and gender. I always find the variety of culture-specific fetishes fascinating. The Japanese schoolgirl thing, e.g., or the supposed British predilection for spanking. I've always wanted to read a great book about this, so if you know of any, let me know.
rubberdingyrapids
Well-known member
this is when broadband started to appear right? (or later i think).
be interesting to see figures after that.
when you could be looking at porn on your phone on the way to work or like fassbender in shame, while AT work.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
I had a number of problems with it, I wrote them down as I read it and it all adds up to more than a page on microsoft word. Mainly to do with the methodology of the studies they use and how the article presents the results. If you want I can PM my qualms with it to you (or anyone else interested), but I think it's a bit too much to post on a Kanye West thread.
Benny Bunter
Well-known member
pm me it if you like, we've probably derailed this thread enough
rubberdingyrapids
Well-known member
having finally seen this, im still not sure what people are so angry about. its like watching kanye do trash humpers. is it creepy? most definitely. is it a new nadir in terms of sexism? not nearly.
you wont get anywhere bringing race into it on this site.
you wont get anywhere bringing race into it on this site.
