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Thread: KAN YAY OR KAN NAY? (The Kanye West Thread)

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    TBF, I imagine most who dislike him simply ignore him. I watched bound recently and was cast anew into astonishment that such a joker has even sold a single record, let alone millions.
    That's the thing though they don't, as you've proved.

    I get that you don't like his music, or even the dude himself, but he's been one the most respected and sort after producers in hip hop for over a decade and his last few albums have all been critically acclaimed and heavily influential.

  2. #32
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    Eh? Please point to a single post here or anywhere else where Ive even mentioned Kanye once in the last 10 years.

    Someone starts a thread about him and I responded. Just because I haven't joined in the circle jerk of grandiose claims made by fervent fans doesn't mean my opinion isn't valid.

    Respected? Critically acclaimed? Influential?

    So are fucking coldplay.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    lol. This coming from someone who compared him to Eno? Could you get more ridiculous? Grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by droid
    i insult artists wholeheartedly and unapologetically. i do not need to hear their music to do so
    yea quite

    anyway name me someone in the mainstream even half as daring as kanye in the studio and then i will compare them to the boy eno.

    ill wait.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by trilliam View Post
    yea quite

    anyway name me someone in the mainstream even half as daring as kanye in the studio and then i will compare them to the boy eno.

    ill wait.
    Perhaps your definition of 'familiar with' is different from mine. It doesnt mean I havent heard his music, as you are attempting to claim on my behalf - how could you avoid Kanye exactly?

    Anyway, I've obviously hurt your feelings by lambasting your idol, so apologies for that. Im sure his daring mainstream studio experiments in the avant garde will continue to provide you with joy in the years to come.
    Last edited by droid; 11-12-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    also irrational hatred Kanye inspires - surely some racial elements in its persistence, as well as natural aversion to any massively hyped figure.
    id say kanye is a victim of people not liking black celebs who appear to be arrogant. obv arrogance is irritating anyway, and dickishness is also, but there is something of a knee jerk reflex from a lot of people to black celebs/public figures who appear too sure of themselves. or often a kneejerk response to declare black celebs arrogant before they have even earned it. obv with kanye, he has earned it, and seems to enjoy provoking people, but it means thats all people see, if you dont really listen to his music, or dont really read an interview with him - like, with that every interview he does, thats all people are looking for, the latest outlandish boast. kanyee obv knows this is where his PR bread is buttered though, so caters to it expertly.

    i dont know how anyone can dismiss kanye as not even knowing his craft - he is a superb producer who has proved his worth many times over. as a rapper, hes not always nas, but hes a producer first, rapper second. and i would still rather listen to him than dr dre, timbaland, or any number of others, even the rza for that matter. he has been saying more interesting stuff than most artists who are full-time rappers for some years. no matter how ham-fistedly, who else is at least presenting race or materialism/consumerism as a debate in 2013 in the mainstream? (or underground for that matter). ill grant you that kanyes grasp of these themes isnt always all that fresh, but i dunno, ill take 'provocative' over just accepting these things any day. i think its easy for people to dismiss kanye as hes so present in peoples faces a lot of the time, but there is much more to him than just kanye-the-ego and the singles.

    i keep hearing and reading endless commentary on gaga's art pop album when yeezus (or mia's mathangi for that matter) bring 'art into pop' much more interestingly and daringly than gaga is ever likely to. kanye doesnt always get enough credit for his artistic decisions imo. its more fun just to laugh at him.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 11-12-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Perhaps your definition of 'familiar with' is different from mine. It doesnt mean I havent heard his music, as you are attempting to claim on my behalf - how could you avoid Kanye exactly?

    Anyway, I've obviously hurt your feelings by lambasting your idol, so apologies for that. Im sure his daring mainstream studio experiments in the avant garde will continue to provide you with joy in the years to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Im not claiming to be all that familiar with his work as I avoid it as much as I can.
    i dnt even like kanye west mate, infact i hate him. i also hate ill informed opinions. and im gonna assume ur opinion on kanye is informed by lets say 20% music (generous) and 80% peripheral. but listen mate, music is totally subjective so i cannot provide concrete proof that you're in fact brain dead as it would just be mine and the doctors opinion. so i hope you enjoyed this as much as i did and please remember 1) you said it not me and 2) im still waiting for that list.


    @rubberdingyrapids

    while some of kanyes outbursts r probably honed behind shadowy desks in a marketing room somewhere i am pretty sure he is a man child. the guy wears his heart on his sleeve. way way way too much.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by trilliam View Post
    i dnt even like kanye west mate, infact i hate him. i also hate ill informed opinions. and im gonna assume ur opinion on kanye is informed by lets say 20% music (generous) and 80% peripheral. but listen mate, music is totally subjective so i cannot provide concrete proof that you're in fact brain dead as it would just be mine and the doctors opinion. so i hope you enjoyed this as much as i did and please remember 1) you said it not me and 2) im still waiting for that list.
    Lets be clear about something. You dragged this down into the ad hominem, not me. I don't really give a fuck about your assessment of where my opinion comes from, and TBH, your premise is so laughable that I doubt I could even begin to formulate a response.

    Bowie/Eno/Cale? FFS. You're talking out of your hole.

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    while some of kanyes outbursts r probably honed behind shadowy desks in a marketing room somewhere i am pretty sure he is a man child. the guy wears his heart on his sleeve. way way way too much.
    whats wrong with wearing your heart on your sleeve? isnt that better than yet another boring pop star with nothing to say, who reveals nothing about themselves? kanye does 'overshare' but hes a product of his time. at least he shares more interesting opinions - its better than sharing yet more stupid selfies of yourself every hour on the hour (i dont know if he does that too, i dont follow him on twitter).

    i wouldnt say hes an eno kind of artist/producer. he hasnt taken quite enough risks yet, though yeezus is a massive start. but he is really good. anyone into black pop should be able to appreciate kanye on some level. if you dont like rap or R&B though, he will probably be lost on you. you wont see what makes him special. and i know hes a big star, but he has a lot of respect inside hip hop otherwise he wouldnt get old schoolers like dj premier, rza, q tip, pete rock (never mind all the contemporary artists) willing to work with him.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 11-12-2013 at 02:28 PM.

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    Probably the most grievous offence he committed in the last few years was doing that ploptastic remix of ''Don't Like'' by Chief Keef which completely ruined the simple brutality of the original and imported some Barrington Levy samples for good measure. I sort of feel the same process of muso blandification happened with Lex Luger's style on ''H.A.M.''. Mind you, ''Mercy'' is a brilliant take on Trap, albeit with a poncy trance breakdown which does provide a brilliant crescendo moment but otherwise didn't work for me at all.

    Was Kanye responsible for ''Numbers on the Board''?

  11. #41
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    btw I'm not a fan of the leather skirt look although its perfectly ridiculous for Kanye, but I did like his outfit in the 'Mercy' VIP. I think Kanye's made it much more acceptable to be into weird fashion and weird sounds/music in rap music - I wonder if all these ouetre underground breakthrough acts like Danny Brown, Odd Future et al would have been possible without Kanye's flamboyance.

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    i didnt like how he was just jumping the bandwagon and trying to steal keef's shine, but even that remix has some excellent verses on it.

    i think hes done worse things over the years. like that katy perry duet.

    i didnt like cruel summer at the time but in retrospect it has a lot of standouts on it.

    @corpsey, hes def the main one - along with pharrell i spose - whos made that preppy look more acceptable in hip hop. drake is def a post-808s artist. i think odd future are more neptunes-indebted.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 11-12-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  13. #43
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    there's nothing wrong with it per se. but if kanye closed his mouth once in awhile then people would judge him on his music rather than all the excess stuff. and no-one likes a whinge either.

    i dnt understand why u felt the need to say black pop though. seriously. like seriously.

    kanye has taken plenty of risks but because he's such a talented producer it doesn't come across as wacky or out there or anything, it's like why would you not think of that.

    you say yeezus is a massive start like 808s & heartbreaks didnt happen. shit like that brings you to a wider audience due to aforementioned reasons but a lot of fans of shall we say "normal rap" were alienated as hell by it. i mean guys that love kanye. some still hate it tbf.

    even lyrically on college dropout. taking the view of the every man rapping about shit that people can relate to. in 2003 that was not the in thing. now you got all of these struggle rappers using their real names wearing backpacks etc etc. kanye started that whole i want to be famous all my life i wanted to be a rapper but i am just a normal guy shtik that guys like big sean have ran into the crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    I think Kanye's made it much more acceptable to be into weird fashion and weird sounds/music in rap music - I wonder if all these ouetre underground breakthrough acts like Danny Brown, Odd Future et al would have been possible without Kanye's flamboyance.
    Quote Originally Posted by rubberdingyrapids View Post
    i didnt like how he was just jumping the bandwagon and trying to steal keef's shine, but even that remix has some excellent verses on it.

    i think hes done worse things over the years. like that katy perry duet.

    i didnt like cruel summer at the time but in retrospect it has a lot of standouts on it.

    @corpsey, hes def the main one - along with pharrell i spose - whos made that preppy look more acceptable in hip hop. drake is def a post-808s artist. i think odd future are more neptunes-indebted.
    indeed kanye opened the door for all these weirdo rappers.

    drake is a difficult one cause i think when kanye made 808s he rele wanted to make take care. saying that drake has just like kanye inspired legions of these.. these guys.

    these two together have had the most influence on rapping trends, styles, yadda yadda than anyone else.

    its y i only listen to mixtape rap now.

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    i said black pop cos kanye is a massive pop star but his music is still hip hop - if you dont like that kind of music, you dont have the context (even accounting for him existing in his own bubble). it wasnt to diminish him. i didnt say he didnt take risks - fantasy had lots of amazing stuff going on in it, him doing 808s was a massive risk, but weve also had plenty of artists before singing and rapping, like dre3000 for example, or q-tip, so it wasnt totally unprecented. so when i say black pop, that context is important, cos without it, you wouldnt understand what a big deal him doing yeezus is, or how big a step 808s was, for people who liked old college dropout era kanye, or how he made sampling okay again making the blueprint for jay-z (along with just blaze) after years of synths ruling in hip hop, or how he made it okay to be nerdy and suburban and educated (j cole, big sean, etc etc) etc etc. without that, kanye is just another pop star, when hes more than that.

    yeezus is more of a risk on a wider scale than 808s. 808s was a risk cos he was a rapper, and then he decided to make an album of him singing. but that had been done not that long ago by lots of otehr rappers like mos def, missy, etc etc. and him doing an 80s-ish R&B album isnt as much of a risk as yeezus which sounds like pretty much nothing at all in popular music right now (even though i can make links with saul williams, el-p, cx kidtronik and others), never mind hip hop. then again you could say yeezus is his art-edm-rap album lol.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 11-12-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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