Nationalism, immigration and racism in the EU
- Thread starter crackerjack
- Start date
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Hey droid, sufi wants to play too, can you deal him a hand please?
I don't even know where to begin with the degree of inconsistency, whataboutery and flim-flam presented here. The world wars, in which religion (other than Nazi mysticism and Japanese Emperor-worship) played no significant part, can be put down to "Christians killing each other", while 1.5 million Armenians were massacred by "secular" Turks? Give me a fucking break.
Oh, and there's a link to another page of willful misinterpretation of the Europol terrorism data.
I don't even know where to begin with the degree of inconsistency, whataboutery and flim-flam presented here. The world wars, in which religion (other than Nazi mysticism and Japanese Emperor-worship) played no significant part, can be put down to "Christians killing each other", while 1.5 million Armenians were massacred by "secular" Turks? Give me a fucking break.
Oh, and there's a link to another page of willful misinterpretation of the Europol terrorism data.
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sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Mr. Tea, I think you'll like this one:
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm aware there are huge double standards displayed by Western governments and much of the mainstream media about what constitutes "terrorism" and who is and isn't a "terrorist" - that much is obvious to anyone who thinks about it even for a moment.
What I'm taking issue with is people who, while claiming to debunk propaganda and present the unbiased truth, are guilty of exactly the same sort of fallacies, except in the opposite direction.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
I know, I agree. I was just being cheeky.
sufi
lala
fine words and fancy talk is all very well, but what do you really think
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-11-14/outrage-at-paris-attacks-masks-our-racism/
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
fine words and fancy talk is all very well, but what do you really think
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-11-14/outrage-at-paris-attacks-masks-our-racism/
If being outraged by something objectively outrageous is "racist", can I ask what is a suitably non-racist reaction to an event like the Bataclan massacre? A bored shrug? A smirk? Some mumbled words of apologetics about, like, Iraq and stuff? Or do you look around for someone who looks like they might be a little bit outraged - a little bit sad, shocked or even angry about the murder of 130 people by religious fascists - and adopt a serious, weary and somewhat superior tone, like a teacher admonishing a backwards schoolboy, before delivering a little lecture or sermon about Islamophobia, and bias in the media, etc. etc., and then pat yourself on the back for having Done Your Bit To Fight Racism that day?
And people wonder why the Left has an image problem about being elitist, out of touch, sanctimonious and so on.
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http://www.politico.eu/article/mole...adicalization-suburb-brussels-gentrification/
The debate is paralyzed by a paternalistic discourse in which radical Muslim youths are seen, above all, as victims of social and economic exclusion. They in turn internalize this frame of reference, of course, because it arouses sympathy and frees them from taking responsibility for their actions. The former Socialist mayor Philippe Moureax, who governed Molenbeek from 1992 to 2012 as his private fiefdom, perfected this culture of denial and is to a large extent responsible for the current state of affairs in the neighborhood.
Two journalists had already reported on the presence of radical Islamists in Molenbeek and the danger they posed — and both became victims of character assassination. In 2006, Hind Fraihi, a young Flemish woman of Morrocan descent published “Undercover in Little Morocco: Behind the Closed Doors of Radical Islam.” Her community called her a traitor; progressive media called her a “spy” and a “girl with personal problems.”
The debate is paralyzed by a paternalistic discourse in which radical Muslim youths are seen, above all, as victims of social and economic exclusion. They in turn internalize this frame of reference, of course, because it arouses sympathy and frees them from taking responsibility for their actions. The former Socialist mayor Philippe Moureax, who governed Molenbeek from 1992 to 2012 as his private fiefdom, perfected this culture of denial and is to a large extent responsible for the current state of affairs in the neighborhood.
Two journalists had already reported on the presence of radical Islamists in Molenbeek and the danger they posed — and both became victims of character assassination. In 2006, Hind Fraihi, a young Flemish woman of Morrocan descent published “Undercover in Little Morocco: Behind the Closed Doors of Radical Islam.” Her community called her a traitor; progressive media called her a “spy” and a “girl with personal problems.”
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Like a lot of cliche's, 'political correctness gone mad' is trite and furthermore the kind of ill informed reactionary views that accompany it are usually laughable.
That being said, political correctness in it's present form is by no means a benign phenomenon.In terms of real world examples, it has been suggested that political correctness was in part responsible for the authorities inaction in the Victoria Climbie case and likewise in cases of grooming gangs.
In the more abstract sense it is incongruent to the philosophy of science (which should be applied to the social sciences); namely no theory can ever be proved. Also much political correctness is based on straw man arguments and by extension ad hominem attacks. For example the debate about immigration is turned into an argument about race and thus those out of line are deemed racist.
I would stress however that the right use similar tactics; criticism of Israel's foreign policy is deemed anti-Israeli or even anti semitic. Similarly criticism of American foreign policy is deemed anti-America, against the troops, etc.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Gosh droid, with material of this calibre you must have Stewart Lee breaking out in cold sweats!
sufi
lala
astonishing photo
via https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/14/p...rability-and-our-selective-grief-and-outrage/
The Meezan Chouk attack in Quetta, In September 2010. In the background is a billboard sponsored by the Australian Government, warning locals of the danger of getting on a boat to seek asylum.
via https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/14/p...rability-and-our-selective-grief-and-outrage/
droid
Well-known member
I admit, Im having trouble keeping up with your sparklingly insightful analysis.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
If we can get away from reflexive and increasingly meaningless accusations of "racism" for a moment, consider the following. Isn't it possible, in fact extremely likely, that news agencies in the Middle East may have devoted more airtime and column inches to the recent Beirut bombings than to the Bataclan massacre? Is it really that surprising that people pay closer attention to things happening "nearby", in global terms? Your average person living in Britain, or anywhere in western Europe, is more likely to have a personal connection to France than they are to Lebanon. Three people I know - one French, two British - were in Paris when the attacks happened.
That's not to say there isn't an important conversation to be had about the media filter and how much attention is paid to certain events and why. But in the aftermath of the massacre I saw a number of people who weren't so much interested in having that conversation as they were in trying to make people who were feeling shocked and saddened by the atrocity feel worse by branding them "racist", and then patting themselves on the back for their achievement. And then there was endlessly repeated charge that "the media" (what, all of it?) hadn't reported the Beirut atrocities at all, which was flat-out untrue.
That's not to say there isn't an important conversation to be had about the media filter and how much attention is paid to certain events and why. But in the aftermath of the massacre I saw a number of people who weren't so much interested in having that conversation as they were in trying to make people who were feeling shocked and saddened by the atrocity feel worse by branding them "racist", and then patting themselves on the back for their achievement. And then there was endlessly repeated charge that "the media" (what, all of it?) hadn't reported the Beirut atrocities at all, which was flat-out untrue.