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Thread: method acting/role play supercedes irony as cultural strategy

  1. #31
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    so once you are free to change outfit, you realise identity is moore fluid than they let on

  2. #32
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    again, we dont want to confuse symptoms for causes. how i imagine these things is as a giant underlying wave that carries everything with it. so the change is manifested in every area. andre 3000 doesnt cause it, hes an early sign of change, kayne takes the freedom andre wins, uses it in a more conservative way. 50 cent well puzzled. whats going on. (this is not about method acting per se just what lays the groundwork)

  3. #33
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    carnival all year round

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Coogan
    "For a few years I'd been railing against postmodernism and irony," he explains. "I've got this real anger against people who think the best way of dealing with the world is through sardonic eyes. It's a depressing, defeatist view of humanity. And I wanted to do something that was sincere, that was not smart and clever for its own sake. I had this notion that the most radical, avant-garde thing I could do was to talk about love. There's nothing that will make an intellectual's buttocks clench more than to talk about love."
    http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013...mena-interview
    BOOK: sound/bodies // paul.autonomic »» deeptime.net

  5. #35
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    Or even:

    "The next real literary “rebels” in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that’ll be the point. Maybe that’s why they’ll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today’s risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal.” To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows."

    DFW, 1993.

    Although I think that's different from what Luka's talking about.

  6. #36
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    i think that's different. there's been any number of people railing against, or calling for an end to, irony and disengagement -- calling for a return to sincerity and commitment. David Foster Wallace is probably the most famous, and possibly the first, but there was a guy in the US, young man who briefly got a lot of attention -- i've completely forgotten his name, unfortunately, but he was this sort of 22 year old prodigy who wrote a book calling for A New Earnestness, one of his targets was the triviality of Seinfeld ... anyway, this sort of "enough with irony, enough with quotation marks," has been a recurrent thing for a good 20 years.... basically people calling time on postmodernism

    what i think Luka is talking about is not a simple return to "saying what you mean directly and sincerely" / authenticity / honesty / earnestness etc.... which is why he invokes the idea of method acting -- it's an awareness of playing a role in a specific context, but fully investing in that role - not making little winks and nudge-nudges to your audiences

    so you can construct a whole persona for yourself out of nothing, but once you've done you have to play it straight, keep it up - at least when you're onstage or in performance

    i would connect it perhaps with a strain of religiosity and vaguely spiritual belief-iness you get in quite a lot of music these days, certain films ....

    one of the few places wink-wink postmodernism persists is in children's movies - -particularly animations, there are all these references to pop culture, stuff perhaps designed to amuse the poor parents who've had to accompany the kids to the movie theater

  7. #37
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    This is exactly what T. S. Eliot did, and it helped him to think and to write, certainly before he found a different guise (and guile) in Anglo-Catholicism and divorced his mad wife. It was a bit different, but possibly even more effective, after that, as the elder statesman at Faber. But who played a role as legal alien and ersatz scion to transcend uncertainty, anxiety and inferiority better than Eliot did in the 1920s? Because the point is he knew exactly what he was doing, brought into it and lived it, but also did it slightly off-kilter and exaggerated for that very reason. Almost a text book case.
    Last edited by craner; 11-11-2014 at 10:33 PM.

  9. #39

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    one of the few places wink-wink postmodernism persists is in children's movies
    Or BBC mainstream, like the new Dr Who incarnations.

  10. #40

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    again, we dont want to confuse symptoms for causes. how i imagine these things is as a giant underlying wave that carries everything with it. so the change is manifested in every area. andre 3000 doesnt cause it, hes an early sign of change, kayne takes the freedom andre wins, uses it in a more conservative way. 50 cent well puzzled. whats going on. (this is not about method acting per se just what lays the groundwork)
    You know that these sorts of conversations we have, whether sober or plastered, and not always on this level, if ever, remind me of the last line Jenkins writes about Moreland in A Dance to the Music of Time:

    He sighed, more exhaustedly than regretfully, I thought. That morning was the last time I saw Moreland. It was also the last time I had, with anyone, the sort of talk we used to have together.
    Death is always perched, just so, on one shoulder or the other.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    There's been a big generational shift. They've lightened right up this lot give or take the odd riot. Example. In my day the cool thing to do was to walk around scowling if you walked through stratford shopping centre everyone was practising scowling trying to get good at it. If you go there now young people are practicing roller skating and dancing. You would never have been allowed in my day. Um intrigued, horrified and envious all at the same time
    true where i'm from too, much less hard lads and much more JLS type young lotharios.

    the internet does have a large part to play, social media in particular, giving platform for the constructed, created identity and also exposing the process at the same time. so we get the stage.. "yay i can be who i want to be".. but at the same time everyone really knows that it's a play. people are starting to realise this idea of authenticity is fluid, changing costume becomes more comfortable.

    I like the andre/kanye/fiddy example. great thread, i love conversations like this.
    Last edited by shiels; 21-11-2014 at 01:00 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiLhead View Post
    "enough with irony, enough with quotation marks"
    Bet Alanis wishes she'd thought of that one^^.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 21-11-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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  13. #43
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    I thought I'd re-earth this one - I was thinking about 'ambiguity' in business, and that lead me to metamodernism. Plus I watched The Interview.

    I am not an actor, and have had no aspirations in that direction, but I encountered 'Meisner repetition' (one of the principle learning tools of Method acting) in an ecstatic dance workshop in 2009 - well two actually. It was considered 'advanced' and you had to have taken some other workshops in emotions and personal history before you could attend. As I say we did a lot of this exercise, only without any kind of theatrical context or role play whatsoever - sometimes there would be one pair going at it with everyone else watching, other times we'd all be doing it at once.

    It's strange, because the teacher was very much making it about communicating authentically and getting rid of the ego, all that mushy transpersonal stuff - but I did feel there was something a bit more postmodern going on. I'm not sure many other people did though because obviously the workshop was mostly full of hippie types with fairly deep new-agey presuppositions.

    I get the sense that the creator of the workshop, Gabrielle Roth (btw she produced numerous albums, sometimes with interesting musicians), had some vague inkling that there was something going on in this postmodernism thing and she tried to integrate it with her approach to spirituality. I don't think she succeeded (she died a few years ago); I get a sense that she didn't think people were quite ready to really understand what was going on in the workshop - but maybe its time is sort of coming.

    In her 'maps of being', we come out of 'chaos' into a 'lyrical' state by indeed 'lightening up'. One should be very, very wary of these narratives but I do get a sense of something interesting happening - it won't necessarily be all that pretty some of the time of course.

  14. #44
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    im not being mean but what point are you making here?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    im not being mean but what point are you making here?
    Am I really supposed to tell you?

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