Greece vs 'The World'
- Thread starter luka
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mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
It's fab, we dance as the banks burn
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bruno
est malade
the irony is that greece approved debt relief for germany after the war, now germany and europe ask greece to give a considerable part of its gdp for thirty years in exchange for a rescue. ignoring the cost of nazi-era pillage (syriza says it amounts to €279 billion) and greek corruption (it is an issue) the solution should be political.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I read the other day that the total debt is equivalent to a quarter of a million US$ per working adult. Granted, Greece has huge unemployment and a large proportion of its adults are either studying or retired at any one time, but that's a craaazy amount of money.
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trza
Well-known member
They have some kind of system where the government pays a certain amount to the Orthodox Church every year, and the church owns tons of land and developments and doesn't pay taxes and is politically protected from ever doing so.
Both Greece and PR have economies where the best and hardest working and most ambitious just leave for Germany or NYC as soon as they are done with school. That kind of system makes tax collecting and recouping investments in health and education nearly impossible.
Both Greece and PR have economies where the best and hardest working and most ambitious just leave for Germany or NYC as soon as they are done with school. That kind of system makes tax collecting and recouping investments in health and education nearly impossible.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
They also have by far the biggest proportional military spending in the EU (or did a few years ago, they might have reined it in a bit since then), an economic elite that makes the UK's multimillionaires look like amateurs in the sport of tax avoidance, a colossally bloated civil service and loads of jobs from which you can retire on full state pension at 50.
Basically it's not hard to see how they've got into the situation they're in. The problem is that while there are obvious ways big money could be recouped (cutting military spending, taxing the rich) these are naturally going to be resisted by powerful people and, as usual, it's going to be ordinary people who get it in the neck.
Basically it's not hard to see how they've got into the situation they're in. The problem is that while there are obvious ways big money could be recouped (cutting military spending, taxing the rich) these are naturally going to be resisted by powerful people and, as usual, it's going to be ordinary people who get it in the neck.
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Leo
Well-known member
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/30/8867939/greece-economic-crisis
this is a decent plain-language overview, seems like the best approach might be, as Tea says, to leave the euro, reinstate the drachma and do some level of spending cuts. surely would be painful in the short term but might allow them to dig out
this is a decent plain-language overview, seems like the best approach might be, as Tea says, to leave the euro, reinstate the drachma and do some level of spending cuts. surely would be painful in the short term but might allow them to dig out
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Interesting piece contrasting Greece with Ireland:
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/who-will-dare-say-out-loud-emperor-has-no-clothes-1.2267032
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/who-will-dare-say-out-loud-emperor-has-no-clothes-1.2267032
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
that's a great article, thanks. gets to the heart of the need to sustain a collective 'ethical' narrative, even when that narrative is completely crazy and founded on lies and half-truths. Same goes for Tory austerity policy of course - warped ideological conviction masquerading as economic science.
Krugman good as well I think - http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/opinion/paul-krugman-greece-over-the-brink.html?_r=0 - again, how many times does it need to be said that austerity has only produced results where the currency in question has been devalued by a large amount to make exports competitive?
"If you add up all the austerity measures, they have been more than enough to eliminate the original deficit and turn it into a large surplus." - would be useful to have actual figures here though, too lazy to search for them now...
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
if there were 1.4 million working adults in Greece (debt is 316 billion euros, it says here), then that sounds about right...but I think there's about 7 million between 18 and 64, so must be at least 4 million working adults even with 25% unemployment and lots of studying?