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Thread: Hip-Hop Culture Wars

  1. #16
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    i dont really see the 'true schoolers' as winning in this battle tbh. i think a lot of people who used to hate jay-z, lil wayne, puffy etc, all had a collective moment of embarrassment around 2004/05 and then, perhaps tragically, started to hate anything that resembled or reminded them of their old indie-rap-supporting days. def jux fans suddenly started talking about mannie fresh and so on. i think i went through a phase like that myself, though it was also just motivated by buying loads of indie rap 12s and never listening to them or reading HHC then buying dilated peoples cos it was what i thought hip hop was meant to be then realising i didnt actually like lootpack or dilated peoples. after a while, i just stopped listening to rap ideologically, and just as music, which is maybe healthier (or maybe just about lowered expectations).

  2. #17
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    Battlelines shift but there's always a war going on. One of my best mates is still true school as it gets though. They still exist. I went to a homeboy sandman show with him the other day.

  3. #18
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    Thing is true-school rappers are always going on about how shit commercial rappers are and how the music they make is intrinsically better, which invites contempt when you realise they aren't intrinsically better at all, particularly when it comes to making music that is fun and makes people dance.

    When you're in on it though it gives you this feeling of superiority to think that only YOU and a relatively small audience worldwide KNOW what the "truth" is.

    It's also funny when you get people like Mos Def/El-P or whoever admitting in interviews that they always really liked Juvenile or whatever. And then their fanboys can't type a rebuttal through their tears.

    I do know what RDRapids is saying though cos I turned on my past quite considerably once I got into Gucci Mane et al. I do still think some of that old Rawkus stuff is good, especially in that first wave around 1998. Dilated Peoples were one of those groups I always liked IN THEORY more than I did in reality, but they did have some wicked beats (''Worst Comes To Worst''). Just now I listen to Evidence and because I don't care so much about how "worthy" a rapper is I just hear him as being pretty boring and unjustifiably self-righteous. I suppose that self-righteousness is just the indie rap spin on the pop rapper's arrogance.

  4. #19
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    Also worth noting that these sorts of wars are going on in most, if not ALL, genres.

  5. #20
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    yeah the battle lines still exist, and one thing that old school/true school east coast style still has its a kind of historical significance/importance attached to it, and a certain respect as 'classic' hip-hop. but i dunno if say, someone like young thug really cares about that, all that much (im thinking of his comments about not wanting to be an old rapper like jay-z). i think they might want the older generation to give them props but i doubt when they hear gza say he doesnt think much of todays lyrics (not that i think he even had much of a point - who wants rappers to still rap like its 1989?) that they think about what that era had that isnt there today. like, you will get big name rappers doing a few classic style songs here and there (like wayne had that alchemist produced song on carter 3, which sounded kinda weird to me but n/m) but i think those are just token tracks, sort of like a necessary thing, just to show they can do that too, rather than maybe to please the genres self appointed guardians or whoever. though i dunno, maybe secretly every big popular rapper secretly has guilt about being culturally debased or whatever in a way their predecessors werent.

  6. #21
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    I did find the shiny suit era difficult. Haven't really come round to it either despite what claims Kanye might make for Ma$e

  7. #22
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    im still not that into the second biggie album

    dont like what happened to his flow and delivery

    OTOH i never thought the blueprint was jay-zs best album (or reasonable doubt), i reckon hard knock life (vol 3) is the best one (or maybe the shawn carter one after, even)

  8. #23
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    I found it enervating and bewildering. Couldn't understand how it happened

  9. #24
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    That era of bad boy dominance I mean not life after death

  10. #25
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    So I understand and sympathise with that backpacker tendency. no good music came out of it but I shared the sense of betrayal.

    In two years to go from the infamous, Cuban linx, etc to looping huge chunks of 80s r&b. I didn't understand

  11. #26
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    prob just that the mid 90s was too serious and somber
    people wanted something a bit lighter
    also after sampling the 70s for so long, it was just time to move to the next era

  12. #27
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    I didn't. I wanted music for alienated adolescent Skunk addicts

  13. #28
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    east london listeners prob werent at the forefront of puffy's mind at the time

  14. #29
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    But then after that brief puffy moment good stuff started happening again even though that brand of lyricism was gone for good
    I liked all the weird stuff. Goofy swizz keyboard mashing beats like money cash hoes

  15. #30
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    Yeah I accept puffy wasn't making music for me, I'm making a personal confession

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